[Mary 2496]

This has been irritating me more and more because it’s a discredit to the accounting profession.

Someone that I know very well just graduated with a degree in accounting. S/he gained employment with a local, very large and well-known public accounting firm. For the first four months of employment, this person was given the “task” of passing the CPA exam. S/he would sit in their assigned office all day, for eight hours, and do nothing but study even though they were on company time. Okay – sounds great. Because this is the person’s only “job,” s/he passes the exams quite quickly (in about a five or six month period).

S/he has zero professional experience in accounting. I know this for a fact. After s/he passes the exam, one of the CPA’s in the same office signs off on that person’s paperwork so that the license can be issued for this person. The CPA fills out the necessary areas and states that the applicant has more than two years of experience. (It is one to two years experience depending on education level achieved, per Ohio law.)

I was really disappointed at this, not because the person was issued a license, but because this is really a well-respected CPA practice nationwide. I was a bit upset that they’d downplay the profession like this, so to speak, as the firm is known for its commitment to sound ethical practices.

Any thoughts?

[TiffaNiffaNi]

Also, is it possible that your relative was grad assistant? It's possible that he was able to get experience going that route.

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[Mary 2496]

No, none of the above apply. He didn't intern anywhere or do anything in college except bar-tend on the weekends. He graduated with a 150-hour bachelor's degree on a CPA track, as he didn't want to attend grad school.

He has no other accounting experience outside of being hired in this particular public accounting firm after he graduated from college.

— and while the direct supervisor may not have to be a CPA (don't really know), the person signing the experience verification form in Ohio must be a licensed CPA.

[Dan T]

Wow first off I would like to express my envy in this person. I wish a company paid me to study for this thing and then sign off on my experience. Honestly though, sounds like the person completed the hardest part of the requirements so the reputation isn't really tarnished. If they were gifted passing scores I'd be joining you in writing that letter. Otherwise, I don't see why you would complain, it doesn't really impact you in a material way.

I'm assuming they have the 150 hours, that along with passing the exam should make you a CPA. The experience requirement is arbitrary and has become somewhat worthless, you can meet the requirement by doing AP work as long as a CPA signs off on it. A lot of CPA's get their license without ever doing public work. So doesn't really matter in my eyes.

Also, wouldn't it be awkward at family dinners talking about how you cost them their job because it was “unethical”?! haha

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[TiffaNiffaNi]

Well then, the question becomes where can I get my freebie experience certification? JK!

I gotta tell you, this doesn't surprise me. The form they have to fill out is very basic and doesn't require them to do anything besides sign and checkmark.

Honestly though, unless you go about it anonymously, I wouldn't get tangled up in this..at least not without an admission of guilt from the culprit. Actually, that's what I would try to do somehow…Find a way to get your relative to confirm that is in fact what happened. “Oh, Dan, I see you got your CPA. Congrats! That was fast! I thought you'd only been at XYZ for a few months, I must be losing it after studying so damn much.” See if he takes the bait. 🙂

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[Peach1024]

This doesn't bother me, but the fact that it's your own family member and you're considering writing a letter to the State Board basically outing him does. Must be the Sicilian in me.

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[Maverick]

If the firm you speak of has in fact signed off on job experience short of the necessary requirement for one person, who knows how many CPAs in his firm obtained his/her license falsely. It seems that the owner of this firm feels having his employees with a CPA designation will bring more credibility to his firm. However, that credibility was taken away with his lack of ethics.

I know life isn't fair, but what if this happened in the medical profession? Would not want to be treated by a doctor who earned his license by studying to pass the medical exam without the necessary internship or experience.

I think it's time for someone to become a whistleblower in Ohio.

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[Mary 2496]

Maverick –

That was one of the other concerns. Since they are a large public accounting firm that engages in all forms of public accounting (audits issuers, etc.), I wonder how many people in there that they've hired right out of college have their license without any experience at all.

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.

[Mamabear]

I didn't read all of the comments so I apologize if I repeat anything. I understand your frustration and admit that if I had personal knowledge of a similar situation it would cause me concern. However, even if a person did work for a year somewhere it doesn't mean that they have any relevant experience. They could have performed file clerk duties for the accounting department and a CPA could sign off and fudge the details of their experience. Only people within the firm would know that they didn't get the experience unless they choose to divulge that information to an outsider, which is what sounds like happened here. If the firm is well established and respected it typically means they do good work for their clients. That being said, I highly doubt that even if this person obtained their license prematurely the firm would risk their reputation by allowing that person to jump on assignments without being thoroughly supervised. It seems to me that the board of accountancy in their state would be irresponsible to approve the license request considering the timing doesn't work out at all. My point is that on any engagement you really have no idea how long any member has put in credible work, regardless of whether they have a license or not. I don't know what the rules are in OH, but in FL I am pretty sure my boss only has to sign off that I worked for her for a year. She doesn't have to write out what I did or put percentages like a lot of states require. So once I'm ready for licensing she can sign off whether I filed papers or actually did accounting work. Based on that, I could get my license without any relevant work experience too. It's also difficult to judge the impact this would have on the firm considering some states don't require the work experience if you have a graduate degree. So while it might not be following the specific rules of the state, when you compare all the states it doesn't seem like it is such a terrible thing. I would never do what they did and put my license in jeopardy, but my point is that it may not impact their quality of work at all.

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[Mary 2496]

They have him working in the audit department, as they needed more CPA's in that area. I do not know the extent of what work he does for them but I know that he just started working in the audit dept. right after passing the exam, as his only job was to pass the exam and do no other (actual) work after he was hired.

I do appreciate your comments – thank you!

[Rocky123]

@Mary

Let me ask you this. What kind of outcome do you want from this? What would right this situation?

The tallest oak in the forest was once just a little nut that held its ground.

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[Anonymous]

Wow. I'd think long and hard before you do anything here. I understand you are frustrated and that this firm seems a bit ‘two faced' as they have a great ethical reputation that they aren't abiding by behind closed doors. BUT it really is none of your business.

Your relative would have got licensed eventually anyways – he had passed the exams and got a public accounting job. Now what you are doing, could revoke his license forever – and, probably, at most just give the firm a small fee and even potentially, get your relative in hot water with his firm. There aren't going to be any news headlines about this, if that is what you are hoping for.

Personally, I am shocked you are even considering this. You are already punishing this firm by no longer referring business their way – my suggestion is to just leave it at that. Concentrate on you and your firm and not other people (or, trust me, you will go crazy constantly).

IF you do anything, I'd keep it anonymous and don't mention your relative's names – just mention that you have knowledge that they tend to sign off on employees experience before they actually have any. Then if the board wants to investigate, they can, and it won't just be focused on one person. I wouldn't even do that though.

[impska]

I think you should be careful.

How did you hear about this? Whoever told you could be lying. You may have misunderstood. They may have misunderstood.

For example, your relative tells you, “I have such an awesome firm and they just went ahead and signed off on my experience requirement!”

You report it, “X falsely signed off on Y's experience requirement.”

It turns out that your relative was wrong or lied because he's inappropriately calling himself a CPA. You have no evidence that anyone told you anything about it. It didn't actually happen. Now you've made yourself look petty and uninformed at best, and malicious at worst.

It's also possible that your relative lied to his employer about his experience.

On the other hand, it's absolutely possible that this firm is unethical. Some firms are. But bear in mind that an unethical firm is going to cover its own butt. At your relative's expense or at your expense.

Assume for a moment that your relative is fairly innocent – that he was pressured/encouraged to follow this path and told that it was legitimate and within the rules. Now your state board is looking into it. The firm doesn't want to admit what it's doing, so it just says that he falsified information. Maybe even forged a signature. The consequences fall on him. The firm gets away with it.

Or maybe they are able to fool the State society into thinking the experience is legit. So then they say that you're the liar. That you're trying to tarnish their reputation because you're a competitor. Or that you have a personal grudge against your relative.

In the end, there is no real evidence to support the story exactly as you report it here. Without a “smoking gun,” you need to be careful about involving yourself in something that is essentially gossip.

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[Rocky123]

@impska

Side note: your test scores are impressive! How did you score so high? WOW.

The tallest oak in the forest was once just a little nut that held its ground.

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[taxwave8, EA, CPA]

In the San Francisco bay area it is common for candidates to have to pay for signage for their CPA license.

[ScarletKnightCPA]

I want to hear more about his.

I don't mind that he is able to get it without the experience – I think it unfair that someone can work for cpa but cpa refuses to sign-off on experience…, but I don't like the fact that only certain people with right connections are able to gain the system.

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