REG Study Group April/May 2013 - Page 58

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  • #415676
    MCLKT
    Participant

    Thanks Seattle! The mnemonic is good, but your last paragraph really summed it up 🙂

    I listed infancy as a real defense. But I got confused because my notes had the comment that a surety defense can't be a defense that is personal to the debtor (infancy, insanity). But, I think what my notes were trying to say, (lol, as much as they can talk), is that a surety's defense can't be based on the condition of the debtor.

    Thanks again!

    A:[73]97 F:[74]85 R:86 B:[74]82
    *NINJA 10 Pt. COMBO & Yaeger*

    #415677

    @MCKLT, you are welcome! Every time somebody post question here related to REG, I make sure that I either know the answer off the bat or force myself to go back and review it. I'm glad that ppl ask stuff here, it is beneficial to both parties.

    Becker Class of Jan - Aug 2013: FARB DONE!!!!
    CPA license pending 🙂

    #415678
    MCLKT
    Participant

    Seattle – well in that case :)…..

    Regarding capital gain on qualified small business stock. Is the exclusion 50% up to the greater of, a.) 10 times the investment or b.) $10M?

    Based on the way the answer for an MCQ is worded it seems like it is actually 100% up to the greater of a. or b. (above)

    and any remainder above that limit has a 50% exclusion. Can you clarify?

    Example: Danielson invested $2M held 6 years, sold for $16M. Wiley states the entire $14M is excluded.

    "A noncorporate taxpayer can generally exclude 50% (100% for 2012 and 2013) of the capital gain resulting from the sale of qualified small business stock held more than five years. The amount of excludible gain is subject to a cumulative limit of the greater of $10 million, or 10 times the investor’s stock basis. Here, the sale for $16,000,000 of qualified stock that was acquired for $2,000,000 results in a gain of $14,000,000. Since the $14,000,000 gain does not exceed 10 times Danielson’s stock basis, 100% of the gain can be excluded, resulting in a taxable gain after exclusion of zero"

    What if it was sold for $24M? How much of the $22M gain is excluded, at what rate? And what is the remaining taxable amount?

    A:[73]97 F:[74]85 R:86 B:[74]82
    *NINJA 10 Pt. COMBO & Yaeger*

    #415679
    Mike1987
    Member

    Hi everyone, do you think I should move up my test date to this coming tue from the friday 2 weeks from now. I am 1 chapter away from finishing all the hw for the 4th time. I took both the Becker final exams and got: test 1- 83,79,91 (Sims 100s and 1 60) test 2- 95,83,91 (Sims 3×100, 78,83,40). I feel like I could use more time to prepare for the sims but I'm not sure if taking more time and leaving more chance of me forgetting some info is worth it.

    #415680
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You know, I don't know what to say about that. I've done many of the Becker problems 4 times. (Not all of them, just the ones I've missed.) I recently moved on to the Wiley sims and I have to say I'm glad I did. They're super hard and the Becker sims don't even come close, in my opinion.

    The comments about the sims in the reg exam experience thread make me take pause. So, I'm hoping by doing the Wiley sims that I will gain more points.

    Having said that, it sounds like you're doing really well. I'm impressed with your practice exam scores. If you didn't need to look for the answers and got those scores, I would think you seem to really have it down.

    #415681
    Mike1987
    Member

    Thanks, I took 2 hours for each one. I'm actually thinking these practice exams really only asked the things I knew well. For Aud and Bec the only other ones I've taken I always get around 60-70. So I'm not really sure what to think. I just really hate to forget stuff 2 weeks from now. I'm really confused on what to do atm… perhaps I can tough it out and do the whole thing and read the book one more time along with more practice sims.

    #415682
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I know how you feel. I just want to take it now. I've had enough studying, but I'm not sure I'm ready, either.

    It's taking me about an hour and a half to get through reading the notes and I'm doing it twice a day now. I guess I'll try to narrow those down. I'm sure there are things in there I have down now. Ninja notes are awesome, too. So, I highlighted the things I want to focus on and ripped out the pages I don't need. It's very cool that Ninja has some things I don't. Between the two, I feel like I have a really good set of notes.

    Work will be a break tomorrow.

    #415683

    @MCKLT, The amount of gain eligible for the non-gain exclusion is GREATER of $10 million or 10 times the taxpayer's basis in that stock.

    I. Sold for 16mil. Original purchase price 2Mil x 10 = 20mil compared to 10mil and select bigger number. Result: 20 mil. This means that up to 20 mil gain can be excluded. We have gain of only 14mil (16-2). All is great.

    II. Sold for 22mil. We can exclude up to 20mil gain. Now 22mil – 2 = 20mil gain, we are still OK.

    II. Situation when sold for 24mil. We have possible taxable gain: 24 – 2 = 22mil total gain with 20mil gain excluded. Gain in excess is 2mil. [edited] The excess 2mil is taxable.

    Anyone else willing to pitch in or correct me, please do it so before it is too late for MCKLT's or my exam 😛

    Becker Class of Jan - Aug 2013: FARB DONE!!!!
    CPA license pending 🙂

    #415684
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Edit, nvm…I read it wrong. I'd love to help but don't remember seeing even a single problem on this.

    #415685
    Mike1987
    Member

    Seattle, I thought one can only exclude 50% generally (unless the stock is acquired during certain times then it can be 75% or 100%) of the greater of either 10x the basis or 10 mil. So like in situation 3 of your example wouldn't the gain excluded be 50% of 20 million? So then you would have a LTCG of 12 million taxed at 28% group. I'm kind of confused about this as well. Also like section 1244 one has to be the original stockholder correct?

    #415686

    @Mike, You refer to dates stock was purchased and it is true that if purchase dates were between:

    Before 2009 or after 2011 – 50%

    From Jan 1 2009 thru Sept 2010 – 75%

    From end Sept 2010 thru Sept 11 – 100%

    But be be mindful of extension of 100% exclusion as described below:

    “In a little-noticed provision of the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012 (the Act), Congress extended the effective tax rate of 0% on the sale of qualified small business stock (also known as Section 1202 Stock) for a second time. The Act modifies Section 1202 of the Internal Revenue Code to provide that 100% of the eligible gain received by an individual taxpayer from the sale of qualified small business stock acquired after September 27, 2010, and before January 1, 2014, and held for more than five years, may be excluded from the taxpayer's income for federal tax purposes.”

    Source: https://www.morganlewis.com/pubs/Tax_LF_CongressExtendsSmallBusinessGainExclusion_11jan13?source=homepg

    I don't want to create confusion but will stick with my understanding & explanation except I did make an error above: in Situation III the entire 2K not 50% of it is taxable.

    Hopefully this is not going to be tested. This is great, keeps all of us alert for the curveballs!

    Becker Class of Jan - Aug 2013: FARB DONE!!!!
    CPA license pending 🙂

    #415687
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I'm glad you're still educating me. My brain has about shut down. lol!

    #415688
    Mike1987
    Member

    Ah okay Seattle, so we just exclude 100% instead of 50%. I think we are on the same page I was just confused at the part where you excluded 50% of the 2 million. So basically if we bought smb stock and held it for 5 years with a basis of 5 million and sold it for 50 million. We would exclude all of that gain? Is this the right way to think about it?

    #415689

    Continuing discussion of small business stock gain exclusion, very important to distinguish between eligible for exclusion gain and gain that is not eligible.

    Per AICPA “The gain eligible to be taken into account for purposes of this exclusion is limited to the greater of $10 million or 10 times the taxpayer’s basis in the stock (Sec. 1202(b)(1)). ” Thus, in Situation III we have 20mil as eligible gain and 2mil as ineligible (taxable).

    source: https://www.aicpa.org/publications/taxadviser/2013/may/pages/clinic_may2013-story-07.aspx

    @Mike, see my correction, I made an error in Situation III saying that take 50% of 2Mil. And, yes, selling 5mil original basis stock for 50mil will qualify for the gain exclusion.

    Becker Class of Jan - Aug 2013: FARB DONE!!!!
    CPA license pending 🙂

    #415690
    Mike1987
    Member

    Thanks, that helps. English is not my first language so everytime they start going about excluding greater of this and that I get a headache.

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