[leshiggitydonatello]

Serious question. Please no trolls.

Why should someone study so hard for the CPA Exam, when they have to give 1/3 to 1/2 or more of their future income to the gov’t? This includes property taxes (even from rent), sales taxes, and other regulations (car registration, etc.). Not to mention the higher cost of goods due to higher regulations like gas, etc. Lots of people don’t ever work and have everything paid for. They live in just as good conditions as anybody that works hard (AC, internet, car, phone, etc.).

[MeaDebitum]

@accnewbiemom

“Financial disparity is what destroyed the Macedonians, the Romans, and some Chinese dynasties. Its happening here…history has a strange way of repeating itself.”

“Most people making 30k as individuals have gone to college. And 30k is about 27-28kish after taxes. Not much but for some reason, we have the GOP preying on these hardworking taxpayers”

I hate to be that guy, but sources?

[Anonymous]

Flat taxes are regressive and hurt low income taxpayers (and many middle class taxpayers.) Paying a flat 9% income tax (or even a higher flat sales tax) would exceed any income taxes they pay now. (considering exemptions, deductions and credits) Many low income folks pay no income tax at all. After paying payroll tax, local sales tax, state income tax and living expenses on $7.25/hour there isn't much left over in any case. Also, a flat tax would likely decrease taxes for higher income taxpayers.

Whether or not it lowers the deficit is up for discussion. But assuming it did (which it may not) making the most vulnerable wage earners in the country pay more tax may just push them over the financial edge. In which case we will have more folks on a variety of assistance programs and may also cause strain on state governments trying to fill the gap.

It is reasonable to believe that our country's budget problems can be helped with BOTH tax reform and spending reform. But until the two parties learn to compromise for the greater good it will be a struggle. When we spend over seven times as much on our military than we do to educate our children we might need to question our priorities. (Note: I respect the service of our veterans, we are sadly under funding their benefits as well.)

Source https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=BUDGET&browsePath=Fiscal+Year+2012&searchPath=Fiscal+Year+2012&leafLevelBrowse=false&isCollapsed=false&isOpen=true&packageid=BUDGET-2012-BUD&ycord=0

[LittleMoe]

@bluegirl I understand your point and appreciate what you are saying. But, I have done it on $4.75/hr while in school full time. And others have been in much worse situations than that. I still had to pay taxes. There were no breaks for me. Turned in my FAFSA in college and was denied any grants or specialized loans because I was too “rich.” This was both while living with my parents and after I got married. No food stamps, just ramen noodles. No welfare, but a decent job to go to everyday.

Living on a small wage means living within your means. It is tough but it is doable. And, in my opinion, it will make you work harder to get out of that hole and make something of yourself. And living within our means is definitely a lesson our government needs to learn.

I am not attacking your post and you have some valid points. A flat tax would be hard on some people. I just think that at least some of those people need the hard times to appreciate the good. Instead of giving them enough to live on for so long that they decide it is not worth it to earn an honest living because someone will always be there to support them.

I agree that the country would benefit from both tax reform and spending cuts. Also that both sides have to compromise. Politics are very frustrating to me because it seems that the constant bickering and backbiting between parties stalls progress and clouds vision so much that nothing much gets accomplished.

AUD 4/12/12 79
FAR 5/29/12 76
REG 8/2/12 82
BEC 8/30/12 72 Retake 10/18/12 76!!! DONE!!!!
ExamMatrix, Wiley Books, NINJA notes and audio
LICENSED ALABAMA CPA 11/30/12

[Anonymous]

I appreciate the discussion @littlemoe

It seems to me that there are a host of problems that contribute. For instance minimum wage is very low considering the cost of living in many areas. Even so there are some people who want to lower the federal minimum wage: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-parisian/how-low-can-they-go-some-_b_1613969.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

For most if not all of us on this forum, working for minimum wage is a temporary situation on the path to greater opportunities. But there are many people who don't have the same opportunities. They battle abuse, physical and mental health issues, lack of education, social inequity (yes, it still exists), rotten luck, etc. Yes, it is doable to live on minimum wage. You get a roommate, sell your car, eat ramen, go without cable TV, the list goes on. But even then our country often has poor public transportation and does not offer basic health services. Many people are one flat tire or one illness away from job loss or lost wages that translate to not paying for rent, medicine, food or clothing.

Also, seen quite a few lower wage jobs that require the applicant to have email, a resume and a phone. Let's be honest sadly those are real barriers for some people.

Also, minimum wage jobs often do not have retirement plans and social security can be sketchy. Can we really expect people to to save for retirement on their own from their minimum wage? Its difficult at best to save for 1st and last month's rent or a down payment for a car. Also, consider the idea that we give a tax benefit to those who own a home, but not to those who rent. Are we penalizing those who have bad credit or don't have the ability to save for a down payment?

What I'm getting at overall is that low income (and some middle income) taxpayers are too close to the edge. When we put people close to the edge we risk that they fall and then will need assistance. That assistance may cost us more in the long run than if we let everyone earn a living wage to begin with.

[MeaDebitum]

“Also, minimum wage jobs often do not have retirement plans and social security can be sketchy. Can we really expect people to to save for retirement on their own from their minimum wage? Its difficult at best to save for 1st and last month's rent or a down payment for a car. Also, consider the idea that we give a tax benefit to those who own a home, but not to those who rent. Are we penalizing those who have bad credit or don't have the ability to save for a down payment?”

That's by choice. Everyone has the option to go to school. Even if you're broke, you can take a risk, get student loans, and go to school. Or find a service or necessary market and start your own business.

If you didn't finish high school, or failed to perform well and thus making you inelgible for a university, that's a complete different issue.

[Anonymous]

A flat tax may put a tax preparer like me out of business 😉

Seriously, the tax code is so f'd up. It has GOT to become simplified. For people who study REG and don't do taxes on a regular basis, I feel for you. It is so quirky and illogical; too many exceptions to the exceptions.

Think about it. Why do blind people get a higher standard deduction? Why aren't other handicaps considered?

Why do they tax social security if you make too much? It's already been taxed once before!

Not only are renters at a disadvantage come tax time, but single people are discriminated against too.

Alternative minimum tax. Really? So a taxpayer get itemized deductions to reduce taxable income but NOT if they make too much.

Don't even get me started on EIC… why is the IRS in the welfare business? FRAUD CITY! Now the IRS is going to police the health insurance industry. They are way understaffed as it is.

I see a lot of W2s from the middle class and I honestly don't know how they (we) make it. In recent years so many clients, against my advice, cash in their 401Ks and have multiple lines of equity against their homes, just to make ends meet. Sending kids to college (or daycare!), paying a huge medical bill, being temporarily unemployed – all can be financially detrimental. Being considered “middle class” we get no breaks because we make too much, yet can't seem to stay afloat.

My husband just graduated college in accounting and is making Smart Ones frozen foods in a factory for $9.00/ hour with no benefits. It sucks. It's tough to find a decent job now. Where are these jobs we keep being promised? Honestly, I don't know who to vote for.

Sorry for rambling.

[LittleMoe]

@bluegirl I agree that low income and middle income people are too close to the edge and that *some* may need assistance. Government assistance is meant for those with disabilities that make them unable to earn a living wage. It is also appropriate for those who need a *temporary* helping hand to get through a bad situation.

However, at some point, the majority of people need to take responsibility for themselves, realize that they are one incident away from a financial disaster and get their priorities in order. Living within your means also requires saving up for a rainy day. When your car breaks down, you need emergency surgery, or whatever life throws at you. I have been on that edge and I can't tell you what a relief it is to have some cushion between me and Murphy these days. It was a long, long road and took a lot of sacrifice but well worth it! I just believe that we coddle too many people who are perfectly able to get out there and contribute to society in one way or another. The system is broken no matter which way you look at it.

@Allyson, I am sure even with a flat tax, the government won't make anything so simple as to put you out of a job!! haha

I just took REG and I knew that tax law was ridiculous but had no idea how bad it really was until I started studying!! It blew my mind!! Hopefully your hubby will find a better job soon. I know how those types of jobs can be!

AUD 4/12/12 79
FAR 5/29/12 76
REG 8/2/12 82
BEC 8/30/12 72 Retake 10/18/12 76!!! DONE!!!!
ExamMatrix, Wiley Books, NINJA notes and audio
LICENSED ALABAMA CPA 11/30/12

[mla1169]

I wonder how many people who collect benefits (including disability) would suddenly have an epiphany about finding a job if they were required to volunteer no less than 30 hours a week to maintain their benefits? Think of all the good that could be done in communities! Hand outs are not the same thing as help, in fact they're the opposite! Increasing minimum wage would not equate to people getting ahead because most people will just spend/waste more and still be one flat tire away from ruin. I personally know too many people on disability who have cell phones, their kids have cell phones, laptops, PS3, and the whole gammut of luxuries that their lifestyle doesn't afford. True story I know a girl who's been collecting ssdi for 8 years because she has carpal tunnel, but playa on facebook 8 hours a day! Anyone who can play on Facebook can handle a clerical office job. She's not an exception, I'm sorry to say. Bless her heart she goes to dunkin donuts every single morning for a breakfast sandwich and iced coffee. The Chinese food delivery guy knows her by name. I've lost count of how often she complains about not having rent money but she's pretty nonchalant about it, saying it would take them forever to evict a single mom with 2 kids. Imagine if she had to earn that check once a month by reading to children at an after school program, or bringing an elderly person to the grocery store?

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[MeaDebitum]

@mla1169

This would be amazing, but I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth that would come of it.

[Anonymous]

@Meadebitum

My sources are from reading job postings from Monster, Craigslist, Indeed, Careerbuilder, Simply Hired, and directly from the companies websites. I would post links to all but there are literally HUNDREDS of them so that would a pain. But I have listed some of the crap I read from job sites. And most of these positions have the audacity to say “Bachelors preferred”.

These jobs listed request a TON of responsibility for the same pay I could get working at fast food restaurant. Hell Aldis pays more than this, but you be the judge.

I like to look at salary and job requirements…to me if you want me to have a degree, I want to make DOUBLE than minimum wage. Nothing less.

Here are some:

https://www.vaco.com/tampa/jobs/163426891

https://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/acc/3194376751.html

https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/ofc/3194241160.html

https://jobview.monster.com/Lower-Elementary-Classroom-Teacher-Job-Clearwater-FL-111027759.aspx

There is more but i honestly am too lazy to post more.

@bluegirl

“They battle abuse, physical and mental health issues, lack of education, social inequity (yes, it still exists), rotten luck, etc.”

I have personally experienced everything that you have listed here and I am not allowing that to prevent from success. Yes, I could have went the other route and just wallow in pity but I didn't. We cannot keep making excuses for people or they will never learn.I agree that minimum wage is a joke. To me minimum wage should at least be $8.25 but I like someone else mentioned, increasing minimum wage will not teach people how to budget. In fact, they may budget less since they have more leeway.

@Allyson

I feel your pain. And the pay for your hubby is horrible…also another one of my gripes with both the legislative and executive branch. I would love to go back to the Clinton years if I could…I remembered asking my instructor,”can't he go for just ONE more term?” Lol

[Jeremy]

So I don't want to be that guy but then again I do, because I think it's so easy for us to loose perspective. I've had the privilege of traveling to a number of developing countries and have seen the poverty first hand, that has literal changed my view of the world. In China I saw a village of farmers who lived in what can only be described as caves, dug in the side of a mountain. In El Salvador, I saw an entire mountain side of shacks built out of whatever could be found on the side of the road(signs, cardboard, random pieces of lumber, etc.). It's easy to complain about making minimum wage or even $30k a year when you live in the U.S. because our perspective is so skewed, but truthfully we are lucky to be making minimum wage, it might not seem like it when you compare yourself to the Jones' but when you compare yourself to most of the people in the world you're doing pretty damn good.

B- 8/13/2012- 92
A- 7/19/2012- 83
R- 5/30/2012-82
F- 7/3/2012- 90

[Anonymous]

@jrstory

A senator(can't remember his name) once said that even though America is far from perfect, we are STILL one of if not the best country in the world to live in.

I've never had the opportunity to travel outside the US just yet but from watching documentaries and the national geographic channel, I couldn't even imagine. I do know I am head strong and I would probably risk my life to get away. I mean people risk everything to try to enter this country for a reason.

[jeff]

Do you know why we're #1?

It starts with a C

It ends with an M

… and has apitalis in the middle 😉

AUD - 79
BEC - 80
FAR - 76
REG - 92

Jeff Elliott, CPA (KS)
NINJA CPA | NINJA CMA | NINJA CPE | Another71

[mla1169]

Jeff, you didn't build this website. 😉 Al Gore invented the Internet for you.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[jeff]

Very True.

Just like every time I walk outside and it's 110 degrees, I curse at my Suburban for warming the earth.

Then…I hop it in it to go get the mail.

AUD - 79
BEC - 80
FAR - 76
REG - 92

Jeff Elliott, CPA (KS)
NINJA CPA | NINJA CMA | NINJA CPE | Another71

[Author]

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