[Anonymous]

What are your experiences for those that have a few years under your belt? Obviously for people still in school or interning, you will be babied and treated like a kid, but I am curious how many people have had to deal with bullying from their superiors?

I consider it to be training and an “initiation” process, much like how frats might treat their pledges, but I’m curious about other people’s experiences.

Have any stories to tell? Thoughts? Advice for others?

[cpa2bks]

Our office isn't a CPA firm, but we do have bullying. I have watched this go on for 5 years now and I am not bothered by the superior doing it because I don't fear for my job, however I watch him bully everybody else. This guy is in fear of losing his job and has no leadership skills. Actually, he really doesn't bring anything at all to the table and this is the one thing he actually does know. He doesn't understand what is going on and therefore can't see problems before they happen and doesn't know how to fix them when they do. For this reason, his method of “feedback” is to yell and belittle people because fear is his motivator and he thinks that is how he will get some sort of result from us. Never in my life have I seen a person operate in such a state of fear when there are no dragons or even tigers present. Nobody here is going to die. Being fired probably would turn out to be the best thing to happen and not the worst but at this point I stay just for the show. Like they say in Survivor, outwit and outlast. These are my new career goals.

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[Anonymous]

Interesting stories, thanks for the feedback guys. The bullying wasn't really a big deal to me, I just thought it was childish. I still learned a lot and took the positives with me. It really only set me back a bit as I would leave the firm and go to another. And I'm still getting interview opportunities with larger firms (public and private) anyway. Plus I'm taking time off now to complete the CPA exam so all in all no biggie. I see it all similar to “earning your stripes” with the firm. It was nothing I couldn't handle, but I can only imagine the hell they've put other people through. I think they also do it to shatter people's confidence and keep costs low. There are many possibilities/factors. Oh well, it's the real world.

[monikernc]

Some people think bullying is leadership. I have worked in toxic environments and there are better options waiting for you. Just don't take this learned behavior with you and don't forget how to respond when people are nice.

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[Pete]

If it makes you feel any better, I worked in a smaller firm as well. While everyone was very friendly, I was laid off right after tax season, without any warning or bad performance review. Just, “you're gone.” I think those sorts of things are VERY common in the field. I even worked more hours than the firm had asked of me. In essence, I provided them the benefit of working long hours, then was cut, when things slowed down.

I would have rather known that I was doing poorly all along, rather than be blindsided, like I was; they didn't even tell me I was doing poorly. In fact, I got nervously excited I was being promoted, during our meeting. At least with the bullying, you aren't as surprised, when/if things go south.

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[Anonymous]

The thing is I was going to all the “best” clients and getting special treatment in a sense and the work itself and dealing with the clients was all way too easy for me. Others were overtly stressing their work and were being babied. If I was new and capable of doing my work without any hassle to anyone, why would they keep pushing me and not just let me study for my exam? I've been nothing but professional and all these firms have done was over work and manipulate me. They do things to let me know I was doing a good job though so it's all a bit confusing. At the end of the day, top employers are still inviting me to interview but I decided to get the exam out of the way first. Public accounting sucks haha.

[Anonymous]

The thing is I was going to all the “best” clients and getting special treatment in a sense and the work itself and dealing with the clients was all way too easy for me.

This is probably the key. They may have felt like you were getting everything way too easily. Whether that means they were jealous of your abilities or of the opportunities you had by being on great clients and getting great assignments etc., it looks like it was a case where you were what everyone wished they were/had been. There's this rule in life that everyone talks like they want you to do well, but the minute you start doing well, they all start trying to cut you down. Just look at a group of poor kids that one of them does well and gets rich – everyone starts talking trash about him. Look at a group of divorcees that all are like “You deserve a guy who treats you right!” – then one gets a great spouse, and all of a sudden she's the outcast of the group, “Look at her, acting like everything's perfect, I hope he does terrible things to her at night”. Look at any group of people, and as soon as someone shows the ability to or actually does climb above their group, they get upset. Same with superiors – if they had to struggle for 6 months to figure out the basics of their job, and in 2 months you had the basics and were doing so well that you were assigned to the top clients, then yeah they'll take you on their clients cause they need smart minds, but they'll also resent you cause you “got it so easy”.

So, I'd take this as a compliment, that they were jealous of your abilities and/or intimidated by them. (“If he can master 1st-year duties in 3 months, can he take my job by the time he's been here a year?”) Their behavior wasn't the right response, but take it as a compliment anyway. If viewing it as a training method helps you deal with it, then go ahead and see it as such, but I don't think it was any such thing. Don't ever let yourself use it as a training method, but as long as you know not to practice it, you can call it whatever works best for you. However, I'd see it as an indication that they didn't like that you were able to do things so easily, whether they were intimidated, jealous, or thought it was just cause you had things handed to you (“he wouldn't be doing so well if he had worse clients” type thing). Whatever it was, it sounds like your abilities stood out, and this is how they responded, so it's a compliment that they recognized them. Now it sounds like you may have already found, and if not you need to find, a place where those abilities will be seen as a positive and people will respect you for them. Once you find that, you can blossom to full potential.

I have experienced some bullying within accounting, though not to the extent that you have. More of the bullying I experienced was in pre-accounting jobs, where I think people were intimidated – the “Oh shoot, she learned her job in x weeks, she can take over mine in a bit more!” In reality, all I was at the company for was something to pay for school, and I had no interest in their job; however, cut-throat tactics were still at play to try to preserve their job. Like you, I learned a lot through it, and it's helped me become the person I am and helped me be able to take opportunities that were available to be where I am now. It wasn't a training method, but it was a learning opportunity. So, I'm grateful for their insecurities that allowed me to learn, but I'd never put an employee of my own through such a trial. You can cultivate that some growth in your subordinates without putting them through the turmoil associated with bullying.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Lilla, that is along the lines of what I'm thinking as well. I think once I finish with the CPA exam then I will work for a larger firm and not have to deal with the small firm drama/office politics anymore.

[ScarletKnightCPA]

Work politics and drama is everywhere, big or small.

Difference may be that in a small office, every employee is in everyone's business in contrast to a a large office, where everyone in the department is in everyone else's business.

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[Anonymous]

There's definitely drama everywhere. I have worked in fairly large companies (many thousands of employees) and experienced professional bullying – thankfully from another department, not my boss, but it s till happened. However, small businesses vs. large does have an effect on things. In my opinion, the thing with small businesses is that everything has the potential to exist in greater extremes. So, there can be great bosses in large companies, but they'll have to temper their greatness somewhat based on the business standards of conduct. For example, your F500 boss isn't likely to babysit your kids for you when you have surgery, cause that level of closeness with a subordinate is frowned on by big-company HR, especially if your boss is of the opposite gender. However, your mom-and-pop company boss just might do that, if he's a good boss. On the flip side, there's bad bosses everywhere, but their bad-ness has to be toned down a bit based on HR. Your F500 boss is likely to be a bit more discrete and/or indirect in their bullying, cause HR won't put up with it, whereas a mom-and-pop company bad boss will yell and get physical (at least until he/she gets sued).

At the same time, you can have very neutral bosses at a small company, it's not that everything in extremes. Just that the small-business environment allows extremes – both good and bad – to be unchecked moreso than the average big company. However, the discrete bullying can be as harmful as the direct, if not more harmful. At least when a person's literally in your face yelling at you, you know where you stand; when they're sugary-sweet but spreading poison, sometimes you don't know till it's too late. 😐

Wouldn't it be nice to have work environments just be places work happened, without all the rest of this junk?

[msgolds]

I worked at a small firm as a Consultant, and boy did that place have a toxic culture. I had a Supervisor who treated me like absolute dirt, would talk about me (and several other people in the organization) behind our backs, and only gave sarcastic responses whenever I asked for any sort of help whatsoever. When I brought up the treatment to other management in the organization, their advice was literally to “have thicker skin.” Since I left last summer, a good 1/2 of the staff has left as well. To my knowledge, they haven't been able to replace the majority of our positions. Companies that treat employees like trash can't retain talent.

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"If we were put here to carry a great weight, then the very things we hate are here to build those muscles."

[Missy]

Wait I am confused. You're actually concerned (or referring to it as bullying, racism, whatever) that you were given GOOD jobs, did exceedingly well, found them to be “easy”, and because they expected you to take on more work than your peers instead of allowing you to use downtime to study for your exam (given that you could manage the additional work).

Thats not bullying, that's the reality of being an adult.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Anonymous]

Agree 100% Lilla

Yes that would be amazing. That is why I also have my entrepreneurial side. I plan to be my own boss eventually but I still need the experience (or maybe I am still being too “modest/humble”)

[Anonymous]

@mla – these small firms get away with their behavior since they don't have HR. It was more than just doing more work, they can be abusive and harass people and at times it was like working in a zoo. Yet this was a highly reputable firm in the area. I don't have problems being an adult or being social and talking to board members or management etc. I have always been successful in life in everything I do until I work for these dumb accounting firms who cheat and manipulate their employees. I've worked with people who all they've ever done with their life is be an accountant and they don't have any other life skills. I don't have these issues or shortcomings. I think the employers just try to break me/my confidence but they end up losing a good employee instead.

[Anonymous]

@mla brickell said in his 2nd post that this: “Yelling, belittling, everything just short of physical contact” was his description of the bullying. I think his mention of the assignments he's received was to try to say that it didn't seem like his superiors disliked him, since they put him on important assignments, not that the work was the bullying.

[Anonymous]

These small firms play by different rules. I remember one of the Seniors at the firm referred me to read a book called “Don't Poke the Dragon” or something of the sort, the dragon being the Managing Partner. The firm was run like a dictatorship and upper management were mindless minions of the dictator, who had a very dominant personality. It was so unprofessional, more like a mini-mafia than a CPA firm. Anywho, interesting to learn about other people's experiences. Thanks everyone.

[Author]

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