[Tawpeak]

Mini rant and general question ahead.

I’ve worked for this CPA firm for a little over a year now and when I interviewed, I explicitly stated that the goal would be to become a partner. I’ve never questioned the possibility of this happening until recently. My coworker has an offer to take over her mother-in-laws firm (which is really just her doing everything by herself) and she doesn’t want to leave without having more people join her, as she wants a partnership. She told me about her plans to leave (not immediately but within the next couple of years or sooner) and she said that if I want to join her, I’d be welcome to come and join her “all female” CPA firm as a partner.

These are her reasons for leaving (not including the monetary increase, of course):

1. The partners never listen to the audit team (it consists of four people) and they take on clients no matter what the team says.

2. They recently moved me out of audit (someone capable of handling a small audit by myself) and hired a new guy who the audit team voted no to hiring. It turns out that he doesn’t know how to use excel and he works extremely slowly. They are also sponsoring his visa to stay in the country (which is really weird for such a small firm to do). Turns out that the “main partner’s” wife teaches the new guys kids at their private catholic school and she pushed for him to get the job. All the other partners said no.

3. One of the partners is on a his retirement track, so they promoted someone else to partner. The person they promoted has fought being promoted for a long time before finally giving in. The last time they tried to promote him, he said no. Instead of promoting someone else (like the woman who has been here 20 years and handles all the bills and payroll for the firm), they were looking to hire a partner from outside of the firm.That woman was finally promoted to manager this year.

4. We have one female partner and barely anyone knows she’s a partner outside of the firm. She wasn’t even there when I was interviewed- all the other partners were. She doesn’t have the workload the other partner’s have either. So, she’s basically there for “diversity”. And unless she leaves or retires, there will be no more female partners. Even though the firm is composed primarily of women.

The general consensus is that no woman will become a partner and that the highest you can go is manager, and even then that may take a long, long time. In my family, I’m the career woman and my husband has a crappy job that he works just so he can put his check into our savings account. The “main partner” (and his dad, who is retired) is the one against more women partners. I don’t know if it’s their religion (staunchly catholic) or if it’s still men in general who think this way, but they don’t think a woman can lead as well as a man because women have obligations to their family.

Is this how a majority of firms are? Should I hang around and find out for myself if becoming a partner will never happen? Should I leave with my coworker and join her firm? Or should I just abandon public accounting for good and go to industry, which may be as sexist as my current firm?

*If you got to the end, congratulations. The post is long, but the background information is important.

Done.
AUD 95
FAR 86
BEC 82
REG 84

[Missy]

This is my pet peeve. You've said nothing of the qualifications of the partners vs the women there who are not. If the women have less time in public, haven't done as complex tasks (you can pay bills and do payroll for 50 years,doesn't make you partner material), seem less loyal to the firm (yeah, you all think nobody knows of the plans to jump ship but they do. I promise.)

And while you made it clear you'd like to be partner, unless you got something in writing guaranteeing you would be simply receiving a job offer after stating your intentions doesn't imply a career track.

If the 20 year veteran has used her CPA license to enter the payroll and do payables for your firm, she is to blame for her career path. A high school grad can do ap and payroll tasks. No sense staying in a mostly clerical job that long. A woman who does so little to build her own career path isn't going to be rewarded with responsibility she hasn't prepared for.

A year in is hardly the time to be questioning your future with the firm especially a small firm. If you don't like working there by all means move on. If you were expecting something more after a year I am afraid jumping ship only puts you back to the bottom of the totem pole and that much further away from your career aspirations.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Skynet]

Of course the Women in Public Accounting are SEXIER than women in other professions!

[MaLoTu]

I do t know if anyone has brought this point up, but a payroll administrator for the firm would never be a partner of the firm. It doesn't matter how long she has been there. Partners are sales people who recruit new clients and services in order for the firm to make money… So that whole sentiment is pretty ridiculous.

[536FrenchmenStreet]

What MLA said, and then some. Is this:

“they don't think a woman can lead as well as a man because women have obligations to their family” a direct quote witnessed first hand? Or conjecture?

If it's a direct quote, you're probably pushing a boulder up a hill. If not, it's just gossip and I wouldn't bother getting worked up about it.

Regardless, it's up to you to manage your career, and that includes being taken seriously and treated with respect, particularly in a male dominated milieu. Most managers love staff – irrespective of male/female – who solve problems and add value to workgroup. So, it's time for some self-reflection. You told them you wanted partner track, which is good. What have you done to demonstrate it? What does your manner, speech, dress, comportment say about you? What about your work ethic and work product?

All of this applies, by the way, whether you stay at the firm or leave to work elsewhere.

BEC: Fall 2016
AUD: Spring 2016
REG: Summer 2016
FAR: RETAKE

[Missy]

One more thought, while it sounds lovely to all go with your coworker to take over her mother in law's firm, remember new business owners/partners often have lofty expectations of what it will be like to move on and it usually takes a very long time for reality to catch up.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Skynet]

I don't know if this is the right place, but being the “Only Guy” in a CPA firm with all Hot & Good Looking Women is a Dream of mine : )

[Jdn9201]

Ha Skynet is the forum's comedian. 🙂

Tawpeak, that's a hard decision to make, but I'd try to just focus on the facts and what is best for you. People are so apt to throw around labels and say a group of people are sexist, racist, etc, because that is easier to do than trying to figure out what is really going on. Unless you've witnessed comments and women being mistreated first-hand because they are women, you can't say whether they are sexist or not. Are the people not advancing because the partners dislike women? Or is it because the women in question don't have enough experience, don't do good enough work, or another factual-based reason? Also, don't let your feelings about your current environment cloud your judgment or your ability to evaluate the other opportunity realistically. Leaving for a smaller firm may give you more opportunity to advance, but it's less job security. Also, is working for an all-women firm the solution to your problems with your current job or does it just create a whole set of new ones? Personally, based on my experience working with women after college, I would not choose to work with a majority-female organization. And before anyone labels me sexist – I'm female too. 🙂 I have awesome female coworkers and managers now, but some women are horrible to each other – they can be petty, inconsistent, and immature. And if they refuse to hire a qualified candidate for a future job just because they are male, then they are just as bad as the people you work for now. The grass isn't always greener and most people don't find that out until after they leave.

BEC - 88 8/29/15
REG - 82 11/14/15
AUD - 83 1/8/16
FAR - 80 2/29/16

[taxsage]

I think the level of sexism varies based on the region you live. In San Francisco there is as many female managers as male managers. Most partners are male but it also requires 15 plus years of experience to be a partner, and as people have mentioned there was less female accountants back then.

The payroll woman is most likely not qualified to be a partner. Payroll and even financial maintenance is basically admin for a public accounting firm. Partners are supposed to bring in revenue and be good with the clients. Audit and Tax bring in the high hourly rates and bookkeeping services are offered mainly to maintain audit and tax clients who want them.

Everyone sees the world differently, but I see alot of people claiming sexism where it doesnt exist. I am not saying that it is true for the Op, but I find it an annoying trait to see in a work enviorment where professionsl women are highly valued. One female partner is probably consistent with the percentage of women compared with men who stay in public accounting long enough to be partner. While it may be perceived as sexist to say at least half of women would like a job that pairs well with raising children; i believe it the truth and this observation if true could be part of the reason why there are not many female partners.

An “all female” public accounting firm? Another new trend is that many femanist are actully more sexist in their hiring practices than other companies. Hopefully this is Not the case with your friend.

If you are in a sexist enviornment then leave.

[Yaz88]

at least it's not as prevalent as discrimination against races and religions… I think its just where you are as I have seen female partners in big4, however, just know that to become a partner, regardless of sex, you have to throw your life behind you to reach your goal… Generally, women care about family more than men in general, that's why it's hard to see a female partner..

my 2 cents.. But trust me on this, females can play it right easier than men to at least become a manager…

[Tawpeak]

That's for all of the constructive and/or playful comments. I posted this post to get an outside view of the situation, as this is the first CPA firm I've worked for and I'm not sure how typical firms operate. The information that has been given to me has come from my coworker (who will be leaving) and the “payroll lady” (who also does audit, tax, and compilations- not just payroll). The information was given to me because, when I was moved from audit into tax/compilation, I was told that one of the managers on that side is retiring within five years and that, if I wanted it and worked for it, the spot would be mine. My coworker outright said that they constantly make promises that they have no intention of keeping and they only say things to make you happy. I obviously haven't been here long enough to experience that.

I wouldn't have any issues leaving if I experienced things first hand, but I haven't. I love it here (I'm a bit peeved at not being in audit anymore though) and before my coworker told me all of these things, I wanted to stay here long term (otherwise I would've left after my internship).

My dilemma was (and it got a bit lost in my backstory) to stay long term with the possibility of never being promoted or leave for a firm that offers immediate promotion but a lot of uncertainty. I don't know that I believe that there is sexism here. I really like the main partner and I've never had an issue with him. However, when someone who has been here 6 years (coworker) and 20 years (payroll lady) tells you that it's real and prevalent, you at least think about the possibility of it being true. Especially considering we are in a small town in Texas.

Even the negative comments helped, as they are making me take my coworkers view points at face value instead of as a possible truth. Anyway, I know what I'm going to do. Thanks!

Done.
AUD 95
FAR 86
BEC 82
REG 84

[Missy]

I'm not understanding why you're peeved about being moved out of audit. You claim you want to be partner, I hope you realize that you have to be well rounded to move up the ranks. Maybe they felt you had achieved all you could with audit and it was time for you to become expert level somewhere else. If you want them to take you seriously, ask. Don't just ask “why am I not doing audit anymore?” ask “Is this move part of some progression in my career and can you outline what comes next?”

I will tell you two things that apply to any place you'll ever work. One, there will always be a gossip mill where people blame their own shortcomings on management somehow. Its juvenile, and mostly fiction. Even when these little hen circles think they're so discreet everybody knows it goes on and while you think you can confide in them (because they've exposed their secrets to you) any person who gossips to you will easily gossip ABOUT you.

Two, most new CPAs and CPA candidates feel “entitled” to certain positions, titles and salaries because of those three letters. It doesn't work that way, if you really want to move up with your current firm, excel at everything you are asked to do, take on more than you're asked to do, and stay away from the hen circle of gossipers. By participating in all that whispering behind the scenes about whose visa is being sponsored and whose kids are students of the partner's wife you're simply perpetuating every stereotype about women that keeps them from being management.This is why its harder for women to move up the ranks, they play into all the drama and no business needs someone running it who believes the gossip chain. Also most guys get ahead because they're not afraid to negotiate, approach management, or reiterate thir plans for their career. By making assumptions based on the watercooler chat, you're giving away control of YOUR career. True management would NEVER participate in such discussions and say “sorry folks, its really none of my business.” Because while it feels like you're sitting at the cool kids table getting all the dirt, all its doing is confusing and frustrating you.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[EuroAddict]

If it's so bad why has that woman stuck around for 20 years? And as others have said, internal payroll person would never be partner in a cpa firm. The license and time there doesn't equate to a partnership.

Not being rude at all but is this your first “real” job? I am 35 and just finishing up my CPA and have had many sh*t jobs. My view on things is a bit different than someone fresh out of school. I am not saying this is you but MANY of the early 20s today expect things to be handed to them since their parents coddled them their whole life.

Now we can play with ageism lol

-----------------------------
BEC - 77, 03/2015 (first try)
FAR - 79, 05/2015 (second try)
REG - 83, 12/2015 (first try)
AUD - 84, 03/2015 (first try)

I got 99 problems but the CPA ain't one.

[Tawpeak]

Thanks mla. I'll stay away from the gossip from now on. It did make me feel included, honestly. Not that I ever had anything to bring to the table.

And EuroAddict, actually I've had a few jobs. I worked my way through college. This is my first “professional” job, though. I've worked at a school, at a gas station, and my job before this was at a bookkeeping firm (they weren't very professional, though). I'm 24, so yes, I am young and with that comes a bit of naivety, though I've worked really hard to get where I am- without my parents help. I'm not actually sure why the payroll woman is still here after so long. She might be paid very well. Though after reading all of these comments yesterday I went to her for help on a complicated accounting matter and she had no idea what to do. So, I can see how 20 years of experience doesn't actually result in 20 years of understanding and knowledge now.

Done.
AUD 95
FAR 86
BEC 82
REG 84

[MaLoTu]

Tawpeak – If you don't feel comfortable there and there is real evidence that you are not going to get a fair shot at advancing, then you should start looking at what it will take to make the next step. Figure out how much experience you need with your current firm before you can achieve your next career goal.

I think acamp was the one who said it, but if one person can handle the work load for the whole firm she has then it is not likely going to support the 4 of you. It will be hard to sell your business when the four of you are fairly new (from what I gather) to the profession (i.e., <5 years).

[Author]

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