[Scared-cpa]

As I’m wrapping up my MBA this year with plans to work full-time afterward, I’ve really considered getting my Ph.D. one day and teach accounting. How silly/crazy/stupid/useless does this sound? Does anyone have any experience with it?

Before I was an accounting major, I was an education major. Specifically, I was going to be an elementary school teacher. Then, a semester or two into my college career, I thought to myself, “Why the heck am I doing this? I don’t even like kids!” So here I am, and I think I took the better option for several reasons. But I’ve always (since college) enjoyed presentations and discussing topics (like accounting) and educating others. This has made me consider going the Ph.D. route, but it’s off-putting given the amount of time and money it takes.

Thoughts, suggestions? Should I just stick with my original dream of being a senior cost accountant for a large company? 🙂

[Want2BeCPAsoBad]

It depends. I thought about it too, but then talking to my professor deciding it wasn't the right decision for me. 1st. UC Berkeley only admits about 4-5 to their PhD program in Accounting AND it can take anywhere from 3 years to 7 years to complete it. You CANNOT do the program and be working outside, it is almost impossible and you will have very little money through your stipends to barely break even until you get out. Also I feel that I can use my 20s, 30s and 40s to be all that I can be, make good money for me and my kids.

Also don't forget that with a MBA, MSA, or MST and your CPA you can teach at Community Colleges just not in Universities. To me a PhD is for those who are PASSIONATE not only about the subject but about teaching others and my respects to them. I simply don't see committing to it in the peak of my life. Maybe something for when I am older just not now. But if you choose to do it, bravo! virtual high fives, you are in something not everyone is willing to commit to.

[KaliKingz]

You don't need your Ph.D. to teach at a CC, and many universities will let you teach without one, too! A few of my professors at USC's MBT program didn't have a Ph.D. or JD/LLM.

[Anonymous]

^ Same here. Some of my professors did not have a PHD, but had a combination of MBA/CPA/JD.

[Anonymous]

CPA is going to be good for you. JD/CPA would be nice I'd think. Also good is CPA/CFE (Cert. Fraud Examiner) or CIA. CGMA also good, I have a friend who has that and he is a “higher-up accountant” at a big company too.

I know several MBAs who are, I'm sorry to say, not what I would call bright/gifted/intelligent folks.
One of them was a former boss – she made probably upwards of 100K a year and she was the single dumbest person I had ever worked with. She also fired me…not that that mattered.
That was a happy day for me actually. But, does the MBA have a lot of prestige? I'm not sure. PhD is a research degree – if I was on your particular career path, I wouldn't do it.

Good for you for not pursuing elementary school teaching. Most teachers spend more time dealing with behavior problem kids than they do teaching (just ask my dear mother who did it for 30 years and is now happily retired.)

Off-topic – your profile pic looks like one of the actresses in a new Netflix show called “Stranger Things”! She's a very good actress, plays a cute high school girl who has a really hot boyfriend, although I don't know her name. It's an excellent TV show though, critically acclaimed. You may have seen it (if not, you should.)

[Anonymous]

So hopefully I bring another viewpoint to this topic. (I apologize for the War and Peace novel)

I currently have accepted a PhD Candidate positions for the Fall 2017 Semester at a large state university on the east coast. Obtaining a PhD has always been my “dream” job so I am a little biased. I can give you the pros and cons of a PhD from what I've seen so far (you learn a lot during the interview process)

First off, there is a massive shortage in Accounting PhD. For every 2 professors that retire, only one enters the market. This shortage has shot up starting pay a lot in the last 5-10 years. Right now a graduate from a top 50 university will command 180k+ at another state university. This pay is for just 9 months of the year. No one ever believes me when I tell them how much Accounting professors make but I always tell them to look up the pay since all state university have to disclose it. For me the pay is just one of the many perks.

The big selling point of PhD was flexibility. After working at a Big 4, I realized that I didn't have the corporate mindset. 8-6 is not for me. The best part of the job is that no one is looking over your shoulder. If you show up 10 and leave at 3, no one is going to notice. In the end, you are judged on research productivity and class reviews, not hours. That's what I want.

Now the hard part of a PhD is the time and money commitment during the program. ON average, it takes 4-5 years to complete. The pay depends on the program but you can count on a monthly stipend and summer research/teaching pay. My financial package was waived tuition and 42,500 for the year. It's not a lot, but it pays the bills.

The application process was really stressful (mainly cause I was a big 4 senior on a large public client). Most programs take between 1-3 candidates a year so it is a very competitive process. It takes a good GMAT score, solid recommendation letters, and relevant work experience to even be in the mix.

If you are interested, I highly recommend talking to your former university professors. They can provide a great insight to the process.

[ultrarunner]

scared_cpa, I am a senior cost accountant for a small but a publicly traded company. Some accountants like it, but it is not for me. I am trying to get out of it. Anyway, from my experience of taking many classes at a few CCs, all of my accounting instructors (btw, they are all good) are either CPA, CMA or Charted Accountant. I have one Ph.D, but he taught macroeconomics. And many of them have Masters of Accountancy or MST. A few graduates from my MST just starting teaching in undergraduate. So please consider Masters. I was in Ph.D. program for another major before switching to accounting career. It was a long process, plus ROI is not that good. Anyway, whatever you choose, please stick with it. Best of luck!

FAR 72,67,79 (Roger+Wiley test bank)11/15
AUD 80 (Roger)10/15
BEC 80 (Roger)4/16
REG 63,78 (Roger+Ninja MCQs)5/16

[Scared-cpa]

Thanks, everybody! If I went into the program, I would probably attend the University of Kentucky which says the PhD program takes about 5 years to complete. I'm not familiar whatsoever with the financial aspect of what goes on with the degree. So they give you an “allowance” each year to live on?

I'm 23 years old and, like I stated earlier, will have my masters finished this summer. I am not married nor do I have any children so I thought it would be best to consider before I settle down. Although, I may like going back later on in life. To be honest, I just love the college atmosphere. Everything about it makes me happy, which I think is the biggest motivating factor for me – to stay in this season of life for as long as possible, whether as a student or a teacher. Maybe I'm going through a (very early) midlife crisis? I feel like life is going too fast and I want to enjoy the college experience so I consider prolonging that as much as possible.

The community college thing sounds like a wonderful option. Maybe I could do that for a while and see how I like teaching and further consider the PhD.

@ultranrunner What exactly do the majority of cost accountants do? I would like a job that provides more flexibility in what I do. I don't know how keen I am at sitting at a desk all day. Up and moving around seems more my style but I don't know what position this would consist of? The reason I am most interested in a cost accounting job is because I really enjoyed (and was good at) cost accounting in school. It seems the most interesting to me.

[josephwillett2]

Not silly at all. In fact rather smart. There is currently a huge demand for Accounting PHds. On average..again..this is an average..a tenured track first year prof can start at $250,000 depending on the university and situation. My boss, a former marine and partner track manager at the Big Four, Honors Accounting and Honors Comp Sci at a Big Ten school, TA in Math/Acctg/Comp Sci, will take this route over the partnership. He wants the academic life for himself and his 4 kids. At 18 he ran and was in charge of the entire security detail at Camp David for President GW Bush. He is a super Alpha to say the least. The money is there.

[ultrarunner]

It all depends on the company you work for. In my company, it involves in fixed asset and inventory. You will manage fixed asset and allocate depreciation expense monthly. Asset management program and Excel (heavily used) are essential tools to use. Every company is doing their own system. Once you figure out the system, you will do the same thing every month with different #s. Anyway, most of work is done in your office using Excel. Fixed asset inspection (or impairment review) usually happens once a year. If you like Excel, it will be a great job for you. Like I said, my co-worker (BTW, he is not qualified for sitting in CPA) liked it a lot. But I don't. Once you become a CPA, you will have more options to choose from. That's why I am pursuing MST for a tax career. If Ph.D. were in high demand, I would go for Ph.D.

FAR 72,67,79 (Roger+Wiley test bank)11/15
AUD 80 (Roger)10/15
BEC 80 (Roger)4/16
REG 63,78 (Roger+Ninja MCQs)5/16

[Scared-cpa]

Well the one thing I know is that I am NOT interested in tax. Most other forms of accounting I'm fine with, I just don't like taxes at all. The fact that I don't really know what I want to go into concerns me since I will be looking for a job soon. I guess I will just take the best public job offered to me. By the looks of it, I will be working for about a year before I relocate so my first job doesn't matter too much, I suppose.

I also just noticed that my absolute favorite professor that I had as an undergrad only has his MBA, MS in Accounting, and is a CPA. No PhD. Makes me wonder how he is teaching at a university, but he was the best professor I had (had him for two cost accounting courses and advanced accounting). My intermediate accounting professor (3 courses), however, had his PhD and was one of the worst professors I had. He made the material drier than it already was and never spoke with us. He went over the homework, gave us tests, and that was it.

[Anonymous]

The best teachers usually are the non PhDs however the “lecturer” pay tops out at 60-80k (depending on school). Also they are on year to year contracts. The advice I was given by multiple lecturers was to get a PhD since it automatically bumps you up to 150k with all the amazing benefits. There are plenty of non research positions that still pay 130k. In my opinion 130k is pretty dang good for a 9 month job and ultimate flexibility. I'm still gonna shoot for a good research position that pays 200k.

[Scared-cpa]

Sounds like you've got a great plan, then!

Just out of interest, though…the lecturer at 80-90k still pays more than senior accountants in my area lol. I have to consider the cost-benefit. I still am not educated on how tuition/pay/financials go for the PhD program, so feel free to explain it. The program at UK would cost me a little under $100,000 according to their website. I don't know if it is worth it in the long run for me compared to pay.

[Anonymous]

PhD programs are fully funded meaning tuition is waived and you receive a stipend. I know for a fact this is the case at UK. If a program is not fully funded then don't do it.

Here's an interesting redit thread on why Accounting PhDs make so much.

Why are accounting professors' salaries so high?
byu/mathhelpguy inProfessors

[Scared-cpa]

Hmm that is quite interesting! I was unaware of that. The fact that it is essentially ‘free' (unless I am missing something), why do more people not do it? Do you know how much a stipend normally is? I know you mentioned yours would be somewhere in the 40k range, but starting as a staff accountant around here (which I would imagine I would be) isn't much higher than that, so it would be about the same income.

What exactly does a PhD in accounting consist of? The first year or two are mainly research, aren't they? And then the last 3 years or so is being a professor's assistant? That's what I gathered from skimming over UK's website. This makes me more inclined to get my PhD now, but I feel like I would somehow be putting my life on hold for another 5 years which is the only reason I wouldn't do it. I don't want to prolong moving out (still living with my parents currently because I'm a FT student – no job) and I don't want to prolong having kids although I don't plan on having kids until I'm 30 or older.

Do you know of any websites that provide general guidelines of salaries for professors depending on geographic area? Living in Lexington, I would probably want to teach locally such as at UK, EKU or another school. I may relocate but it's doubtful. The good thing is a lot of courses like this are online now.

I apologize for all the questions!

[Anonymous]

No problem. I had a ton more questions. This is a career decision so you want to be as informed as you can. BYU has a website that I consider the holy grail of information concerning a PhD in Accounting. Here's the link:

https://www.byuaccounting.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

The life as a doctoral student is a good start. It's definitely not like any undergrad or masters prorgram.

[Author]

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