[Anonymous]

I’ll try to make this as short as possible but I need some advice. I used to have this coworker who treated me pretty badly. He was sexist, would call me dumb to my manager (my manager told me he did this), and would always try to make me look bad. My manager refused to have me report to him because he was so difficult, so even though his title was “manager”, he didn’t manage anyone. He quit last year and I haven’t heard from him since.

I’m currently on maternity leave and Yesterday I got an email from him asking for a “huge favor”Turns out he needs me to be a reference for him for a job opportunity. I was really confused because there was no confusion about our bad relationship. Then my manager calls me and leaves me a message trying to persuade me to give him a reference. I didn’t call back because I’m on maternity leave and an hour later I got an email from my manager saying that it was his idea for my old coworker to ask me for a reference because this company would like to speak to someone he supervised. I emailed my manager back and said “he didn’t technically supervise me but yes I can give him a reference” because at that point I felt pushed into it. My manager emails me back and says “I know he didn’t supervise you, that’s why we need a huge favor from you”. So they’re asking me to lie.

I feel like this is a weird situation I’m being put in. I don’t feel comfortable lying, I feel weird that my manager is asking me to lie, and I don’t appreciate being pushing into doing this for someone who was so awful to me. However since my manager is pushing me, I feel like I’m going to be punished at work, by the person who oversees my reviews, for not doing this. Help!

[shanek327]

I can understand you not wanting issues with your current manager, I wouldn't either. But someone else, somewhere else is going to be treated poorly by this person just like you were. And your very reference could be part of what allows his behavior towards others to perpetuate. Explain to your current manager as respectfully as you can, but if I am you…there is no way.

FAR - 75
AUD - 78
BEC - 82
REG - 77

2 Corinthians 5:21

Our value does not come from our skills and abilities, as good as they may be; it does not come from our GPA, our job, a promotion from that job to a better job, our success on the CPA exam, or anything of the like; but our value comes from the fact that we have a Creator who loves us, cares for us, and desires to help us navigate the rough waters of this life in a way that provides security, hope, and true, everlasting joy while we anticipate the life to come, with Him.

[Missy]

I wouldn't lie but be vague at best. If they ask about a, leadership skill he has you can answer that without indicating he supervised you. If they ask how long he supervised you personally I'd answer that he didn't. If there's any fallout you can just say you were too “dumb” to know better 😉

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[shanek327]

…also, if your manager ”punishes” you in any way, start sending your resume out, you're a stinkin' CPA!

FAR - 75
AUD - 78
BEC - 82
REG - 77

2 Corinthians 5:21

Our value does not come from our skills and abilities, as good as they may be; it does not come from our GPA, our job, a promotion from that job to a better job, our success on the CPA exam, or anything of the like; but our value comes from the fact that we have a Creator who loves us, cares for us, and desires to help us navigate the rough waters of this life in a way that provides security, hope, and true, everlasting joy while we anticipate the life to come, with Him.

[silvercamaro77]

A middle school teacher I had always told his classes that when you ask someone to provide a reference for you to always be specific and ask if they would be willing to provide a good reference for you.

I definitely would not lie for someone. If he behaves there as he did when he worked with you, it will likely go badly and you'll basically be guaranteeing that if you were to need to apply there (or with someone that currently works there and leaves in the future) your name will already be tarnished.

AUD- 95
FAR- 75
BEC- 83
REG- 85

Officially done! Exclusively used NINJA for BEC, REG, and FAR

[AJG38]

As my late grandmother would say, tell them to go fry ice…..

I would simply tell the prior manager I wasn't supervised by him directly and won't lie for him as a reference, and similar to your current manager; and if they imply and negative repercussions due to this, start applying elsewhere you are a CPA!

Sincerely,

AJG

AUD - 91 (4/7/2015)
BEC - 88 (4/29/2015)
FAR - 80 (5/29/2015)
REG - 70 (8/18/2015); 82 (11/08/2015)

Gleim & Ninja Flashcards

[greg2015]

Based on what you've described, I would let the boss know that after giving it consideration that you are unable to provide a reference. It seems that the company wants to know how he treats people he supervises and I can imagine the conversation would get into how he treated you and you would have to answer honestly. It's really not worth it to compromise your principles. As far as your boss is concerned, I wouldn't worry about it. If your boss is really going to punish you for not wanting to lie, then maybe you should consider if you want to continue working for that person.

AUD: 99
FAR: 95
BEC: 89
REG: 87

AICPA Ethics: 91

Licensed Illinois CPA

[Anonymous]

I don't see why you couldn't be honest and be a reference at the same time… He's asking for it.

[jeff]

Sounds like you're going to have to bend the truth (aka lie) about 2 things: 1) you had a good experience with him and 2) he supervised you.

Not worth it.

Jeff Elliott, CPA (KS) | Another71 | NINJA CPA | NINJA CMA | NINJA CPE

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone. My manager specifically asked me to provide a “good” reference and I replied by saying that I would provide a reference (aka not good but honest). This was before I knew that they actually wanted me to lie. I am guessing that one of their questions would specifically be asking if I was supervised by him to which I would say no, obviously.

I guess I'm a little irritated that my manager is getting involved and putting me in this position. If it were just my former coworker asking me to do this, I would have said no from the beginning. I don't think he would necessarily “punish” me but I get a weird feeling because he's pushing me into it and I don't know why. Why does he have such a vested interest in making sure this guy gets a referral? This guy quit out of the blue via email, after working with the company for 5 years. I just feel like my manager is crossing some boundaries here, especially since he knows good and well how this guy treated me, since he's the one who told me that I was called dumb, etc.

[Anonymous]

Do you think you can get in trouble with your current manager if you tell the truth? Is there a manager above your manager? I would probably lie if I was desperate to keep my job, but if not i would tell the truth and I would let myself gloat

[CPA50]

You can talk to the person at the hiring company requesting the reference and ask THEM questions and give them HR “clues”. There are definite code words HR manager use, as well as long pauses which tells them everything they need to know without you going out on a limb. Don't compromise your own ethics and boundaries because Joe can't get or keep a job. Not your circus, not your monkeys; but you will get the blame. You don't know the behind the scenes of what is really going on.

I asked someone once about an applicant who used them as a reference. To every question, they just kept repeating…”well, they don't work here anymore”. Silence. That was enough code for me to put the pieces together.

“Did he supervise you?” “No.”

“Was he a good manager?” “There are no words to describe it.”

“Did you get along?” Silence. “I'm thinking about how to respond to that.” Silence.

If the hiring manager doesn't pick up on those non-answers, then maybe they deserve each other.

AUD 88 (expired), 80 retake
FAR 64,69,67,73,67,73,73,73, August 3
REG 75 (expired) September 7
BEC 72, 77

The adventure continues...

[greg2015]

I don't think you should agree to be a reference, even if you intend to be completely honest in your responses. If he doesn't get the job, he could sue you and/or your current employer, which would be a much worse situation.

As far why your boss has a vested interest in your ex-coworker getting the job? Maybe your boss would like to make a move to this company and wants to stay on good terms with the ex-coworker? Or maybe he owes him a personal favor that he has to make good on. The reason doesn't matter, he should not pressure you into doing this.

AUD: 99
FAR: 95
BEC: 89
REG: 87

AICPA Ethics: 91

Licensed Illinois CPA

[SaveBandit]

Yeah, the fact that the boss has such an interest in this ass hat is really strange. What's his angle on this? I would ask. There's obviously something he's getting from this reference otherwise he wouldn't care. And if he gives you the runaround when you ask about it, time for a new j-o-b. Because he's an ass hat too.

4 for 4

FAR 85
AUD 94
BEC 86
REG 90

[Missy]

You know the more I think about it the more I wonder if your manager is somehow “testing” your ethics. You had posted before about looking for/being promised a promotion. If your boss is well aware of the negative relationship you had with this manager, I can't fathom him asking you this favor except to see how you'd stick to your principles or to get someone else off the hook of having to give a reference. I'd email your boss back and say while you've agreed to this you will be totally honest including the fact that he never directly supervised you. LEGALLY you can say anything that is truthful and can be backed up (I.e. don't mention what you heard he said about you, but do say he wasn't your boss if his name wasn't on your performance review.) The only time someone can win a lawsuit is if the reference was untrue. Many legal references to this fact online, not my opinion.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[MaLoTu]

I would email your manager and tell him that you will give the reference, but you will not lie. At least it gives them more time to find another patsy.

[Author]

Replies