[Anonymous]

Is is worth it to do simulated exams? I’m thinking of doing a couple of simulated exams just to condition myself for the 3-hour stretch (like how a runner conditions himself or herself for a marathon), and was wondering if people find it helpful or is it just a waste of time?

[M.O.D.]

@ mla

I've taken hundreds of exams, like everyone who goes to school.

“The sample test … has zero correlation to a score on the real thing.”

Do you have data to back this up?

Are you making a statistical statement (correlation is covered in BEC) or a subjective statement.

I doubt you would say that about any other test.

But just because the CPA test is harder than other tests does not make it fundamentally different.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[mla1169]

Oh dear. The cpa exam is not graded like “any other test”. In fact nobody here can even tell you how it is graded. You might want to start with the AICPA website and their exceptionally long but vague explanation of psychometric scoring. Theres no need to take my word for it, or anythung else. I hope you realize however that a 75 does not mean 75%.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[mla1169]

Oh dear. The cpa exam is not graded like “any other test”. In fact nobody here can even tell you how it is graded. You might want to start with the AICPA website and their exceptionally long but vague explanation of psychometric scoring. Theres no need to take my word for it, or anythung else. I hope you realize however that a 75 does not mean 75%.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[evesocal]

>>Preparation exams are mandatory. How else can you know whether you can pass the test for real? And if you can't pass the sample test, stay home!<<

Not everyone learns the same way, M.O.D., and nothing about studying is mandatory. I did not take any sample tests and passed the exam on my first try.

“How else can you know if you can pass the test for real?” You don't know. Even if you take sample exams you still don't know. No one knows until they get their grade.

B: 75
R: 80
A: 77
F: 81
Ethics: 84, 92 and done!
Licensed in California

[evesocal]

>>Preparation exams are mandatory. How else can you know whether you can pass the test for real? And if you can't pass the sample test, stay home!<<

Not everyone learns the same way, M.O.D., and nothing about studying is mandatory. I did not take any sample tests and passed the exam on my first try.

“How else can you know if you can pass the test for real?” You don't know. Even if you take sample exams you still don't know. No one knows until they get their grade.

B: 75
R: 80
A: 77
F: 81
Ethics: 84, 92 and done!
Licensed in California

[Study Monk]

I am not taking sides(I hope) but have to say that Mia made a good point about the grading. The percentage of questions you get right does not agree with the points you get on your exam. Based on the description of how the AICPA grades these tests is sounds like you have to achieve a certain amount of points based on some CPA's that volunteered to take sample exams. Maybe you have to get 60 percent right or it could be 80 percent right for all we know.

I am choosing not to take practice exams because I don't want to spend 3 plus hours getting no feedback or spending extra time trying to figure out problems that I don't know how to answer in hopes of boosting my ego before the exam. On the flip side I don't want to score a 55 and end up rescheduling when in an alternate universe I took the exam and actually passed.

I spoke to an ancient wise man who sent me on a mushroom induced journey through an ancient forest to find the key to passing the CPA exam. A talking spider monkey told me to throw the last of my drinking water in the dirt to find what I was looking for. So I followed his instructions and the following message appeared in the soil:

"Do 5000 multiple choice questions for each section"

[Study Monk]

I am not taking sides(I hope) but have to say that Mia made a good point about the grading. The percentage of questions you get right does not agree with the points you get on your exam. Based on the description of how the AICPA grades these tests is sounds like you have to achieve a certain amount of points based on some CPA's that volunteered to take sample exams. Maybe you have to get 60 percent right or it could be 80 percent right for all we know.

I am choosing not to take practice exams because I don't want to spend 3 plus hours getting no feedback or spending extra time trying to figure out problems that I don't know how to answer in hopes of boosting my ego before the exam. On the flip side I don't want to score a 55 and end up rescheduling when in an alternate universe I took the exam and actually passed.

I spoke to an ancient wise man who sent me on a mushroom induced journey through an ancient forest to find the key to passing the CPA exam. A talking spider monkey told me to throw the last of my drinking water in the dirt to find what I was looking for. So I followed his instructions and the following message appeared in the soil:

"Do 5000 multiple choice questions for each section"

[M.O.D.]

@ eve

Nothing is for certain (ever), but even a little knowledge (about the ability to pass) is better than no knowledge whatsoever. That to me is just common sense and maturity.

I am surprised at the lackadaisical and nonchalant attitude of some candidates towards the test (A), followed by the drama of threatening suicide when they fail (B). More maturity at point A would save the heartache at point B.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[M.O.D.]

@ eve

Nothing is for certain (ever), but even a little knowledge (about the ability to pass) is better than no knowledge whatsoever. That to me is just common sense and maturity.

I am surprised at the lackadaisical and nonchalant attitude of some candidates towards the test (A), followed by the drama of threatening suicide when they fail (B). More maturity at point A would save the heartache at point B.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[M.O.D.]

@ monk

I studied the AICPA site in detail as well as several wikipedia pages:

https://www.aicpa.org/BECOMEACPA/CPAEXAM/PSYCHOMETRICSANDSCORING/Pages/PsychometricsandScoring.aspx

AICPA (as well as GMAT, etc.) base their grading on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Item_response_theory

I quote:

“While scoring is much more sophisticated with IRT, for most tests, the (linear) correlation between the theta estimate and a traditional score is very high; often it is .95 or more.”

“the measure of the linear correlation (dependence) between two variables X and Y, giving a value between +1 and −1 inclusive, where 1 is total positive correlation, 0 is no correlation, and −1 is total negative correlation. It is widely used in the sciences as a measure of the degree of linear dependence between two variables”

I'll take a 0.95 correlation any day.

I'll also give some credit to the professionals who prepare the candidates. They do this for a living and have been doing it for many years. If there was little reality to their practice scores, I doubt they would continue to offer them.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[M.O.D.]

@ monk

I studied the AICPA site in detail as well as several wikipedia pages:

https://www.aicpa.org/BECOMEACPA/CPAEXAM/PSYCHOMETRICSANDSCORING/Pages/PsychometricsandScoring.aspx

AICPA (as well as GMAT, etc.) base their grading on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Item_response_theory

I quote:

“While scoring is much more sophisticated with IRT, for most tests, the (linear) correlation between the theta estimate and a traditional score is very high; often it is .95 or more.”

“the measure of the linear correlation (dependence) between two variables X and Y, giving a value between +1 and −1 inclusive, where 1 is total positive correlation, 0 is no correlation, and −1 is total negative correlation. It is widely used in the sciences as a measure of the degree of linear dependence between two variables”

I'll take a 0.95 correlation any day.

I'll also give some credit to the professionals who prepare the candidates. They do this for a living and have been doing it for many years. If there was little reality to their practice scores, I doubt they would continue to offer them.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[Study Monk]

M.O.D

In the time it would take me to figure out what those quotes mean I would be able to complete a practice test:P

The tests have value and therefore are part of the cpa review courses, however they are not a major focus in any program. All programs suggest over 300 hours of study time to pass these exams yet most don't suggest more than one or two practice exams per section. Forgive my math but that means the “professionals” suggest less than 5 percent of your study time is allocated to this component. This means that the professionals consider this item the least important component of your study time. I am not opposed to doing practice exams and actually think that people who have four more hours than I have to study should take them.

Since we are all preparing to be intelligent business people…I want to throw out some food for thought. Is it possible that all CPA review programs have practice tests not because they are the most efficient learning tools but to offer an optional tool for the minority of test takers who like this resource? Perhaps one review course provider started offering practice tests and their competitors were losing all the M.O.D's of the world?

I am not really passionate about this topic so I am not trying to be right or wrong. I guess I am surprised that you find candidates inferior because they are only doing 95 percent of what is suggested of them by the “professionals” when every candidate has their own time restrictions and other life commitments.

There are a lot of candidates who don't over prepare for these exams who slide by more quickly and get to enjoy more life as a result. The other side of things is there are a lot of candidates who constantly under prepare. You come off as a person who likes to over prepare. The person who best prepared is the person who neither over prepared or under prepared.

I spoke to an ancient wise man who sent me on a mushroom induced journey through an ancient forest to find the key to passing the CPA exam. A talking spider monkey told me to throw the last of my drinking water in the dirt to find what I was looking for. So I followed his instructions and the following message appeared in the soil:

"Do 5000 multiple choice questions for each section"

[Study Monk]

M.O.D

In the time it would take me to figure out what those quotes mean I would be able to complete a practice test:P

The tests have value and therefore are part of the cpa review courses, however they are not a major focus in any program. All programs suggest over 300 hours of study time to pass these exams yet most don't suggest more than one or two practice exams per section. Forgive my math but that means the “professionals” suggest less than 5 percent of your study time is allocated to this component. This means that the professionals consider this item the least important component of your study time. I am not opposed to doing practice exams and actually think that people who have four more hours than I have to study should take them.

Since we are all preparing to be intelligent business people…I want to throw out some food for thought. Is it possible that all CPA review programs have practice tests not because they are the most efficient learning tools but to offer an optional tool for the minority of test takers who like this resource? Perhaps one review course provider started offering practice tests and their competitors were losing all the M.O.D's of the world?

I am not really passionate about this topic so I am not trying to be right or wrong. I guess I am surprised that you find candidates inferior because they are only doing 95 percent of what is suggested of them by the “professionals” when every candidate has their own time restrictions and other life commitments.

There are a lot of candidates who don't over prepare for these exams who slide by more quickly and get to enjoy more life as a result. The other side of things is there are a lot of candidates who constantly under prepare. You come off as a person who likes to over prepare. The person who best prepared is the person who neither over prepared or under prepared.

I spoke to an ancient wise man who sent me on a mushroom induced journey through an ancient forest to find the key to passing the CPA exam. A talking spider monkey told me to throw the last of my drinking water in the dirt to find what I was looking for. So I followed his instructions and the following message appeared in the soil:

"Do 5000 multiple choice questions for each section"

[M.O.D.]

@monk

Interesting analysis. I would question several things though. First I don't think anyone inferior (or superior) regardless of his scores, his study methods or his professional standing for that matter.

How much have you retained from your courses? Is 300 hours sufficient? What if that is just the average to pass. Would you be happy with a a 50% chance of passing?

Personally, I've been in school long enough to know how well I'll do on a test before I take it, while I take it, and after I take it. I have my own standard of preparation, but will take a practice test just to condition myself to sitting still for 4 hours (and not check A71 :). There are issues of hunger, bathroom breaks, etc. to work out. Better be prepared than not. That is what intelligent business people do. And if they don't prepare, they lose business, customers, clients, etc.

Ultimately I am in charge of my preparation, not Gleim, etc. But I've taken enough tests to know to take simulated tests beforehand. I do this for all my classes (midterms, finals).

Second is the issue of what exactly we are studying. I want a career where I use the accounting (and business) I learn and study in the CPA test. “Sliding by the material to enjoy life” seems an error if one's enjoyment in life is to practice that very material.

Granted, some of it is overwhelming, but we should not lose track that we want to be CPAs and this material is what CPAs do.

My intermediate accounting professor said: this course is hard, but the CPA exam will be harder, and your accounting work harder still.” This statement was seconded by my tax professor. So then the CPA test is just a stepping stone to the real test: reality.

“The person who is best prepared is the person who is neither over prepared nor under prepared.” This may be true as a holistic or zen statement, but it is not usually the case in business, finance, or even school. And the knowledge of the “just enough preparation” balance point is not a luxury either one of us has.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[M.O.D.]

@monk

Interesting analysis. I would question several things though. First I don't think anyone inferior (or superior) regardless of his scores, his study methods or his professional standing for that matter.

How much have you retained from your courses? Is 300 hours sufficient? What if that is just the average to pass. Would you be happy with a a 50% chance of passing?

Personally, I've been in school long enough to know how well I'll do on a test before I take it, while I take it, and after I take it. I have my own standard of preparation, but will take a practice test just to condition myself to sitting still for 4 hours (and not check A71 :). There are issues of hunger, bathroom breaks, etc. to work out. Better be prepared than not. That is what intelligent business people do. And if they don't prepare, they lose business, customers, clients, etc.

Ultimately I am in charge of my preparation, not Gleim, etc. But I've taken enough tests to know to take simulated tests beforehand. I do this for all my classes (midterms, finals).

Second is the issue of what exactly we are studying. I want a career where I use the accounting (and business) I learn and study in the CPA test. “Sliding by the material to enjoy life” seems an error if one's enjoyment in life is to practice that very material.

Granted, some of it is overwhelming, but we should not lose track that we want to be CPAs and this material is what CPAs do.

My intermediate accounting professor said: this course is hard, but the CPA exam will be harder, and your accounting work harder still.” This statement was seconded by my tax professor. So then the CPA test is just a stepping stone to the real test: reality.

“The person who is best prepared is the person who is neither over prepared nor under prepared.” This may be true as a holistic or zen statement, but it is not usually the case in business, finance, or even school. And the knowledge of the “just enough preparation” balance point is not a luxury either one of us has.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

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