REG Study Group – Q1 2018 - Page 8

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    Topic
  • #1676693
    jeff
    Keymaster

    Welcome to the Q1 2018 CPA Exam Study Group for REG. 🙂

    Introduce yourselves and let your fellow NINJAs know when you plan to take your exam.

    The Five Steps (NINJA Framework): https://www.another71.com/pass-the-cpa-exam/

Viewing 15 replies - 106 through 120 (of 428 total)
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  • #1689599
    chitown87
    Participant

    @lentilcounter

    I think I am following, but want to make sure.

    Hall was bequeathed 500 shares of common stock under his father’s will. Hall’s father had paid $2,500 for the stock 10 years ago. Fair market value of the stock on February 1, Year 1, the date of his father’s death, was $4,000 and had increased to $5,500 six months later. The executor of the estate elected the alternate valuation date for estate tax purposes. Hall sold the stock for $4,500 on June 1, Year 1, the date that the executor distributed the stock to him. How much income should Hall include in his individual income tax return for the inheritance of the 500 shares of stock that he received from his father’s estate?

    A – 5,500
    B – 4,000
    C – 2,500
    D – 0

    I realize Hall would pay no tax on the actual inheritance, but what would his basis be in the stock received?

    Would it be the FMV at the date of death of $4,000, because the FMV at the date of distribution was higher($4,500) and thus the alternate valuation would not be allowed? So would there be a capital gain on the sale of the stock?

    Or is the value at date of distribution ALWAYS used when the alternate valuation date is chosen, even if it is higher than at the date of death?

    #1689632
    Recked
    Participant

    wrote a post, but i think it got lost somewhere.
    Will revisit if it doesn't show up.

    Clifs
    AVD is taken for the estate as a whole, not piecemeal per asset.
    1st DoD
    2nd, AVD
    3rd, Date of sale if AVD chosen and asset sold before reaching AVD.
    Above question, asset was sold June 1st, AVD is Aug, so date of sale is used, basis is 4500, with no gain or loss on sale of inherited property.

    @Lentil – Roger for now, I heard Gleim has EA questions baked into the mix. I used Gleim for EA exam in 2013/2014, so the tax REG sections are mostly refreshers.

    #1689643
    Lentilcounter
    Participant

    @chitown87

    If the alternate value is chosen and the property is disposed of before the 6-month period has expired, that property is valued at the fair market value at the date when it is sold (sale price). Since Hall sold the stock before the 6-month period ended, his basis equals his sale price, and no gain or loss exists.

    This is one of those exception rules that you have to memorize. Usually, the inherited property is valued at the FMV on the date of the death of decedent. The other option is 6 months after after the date of the death if that election has been taken. The holding period is usually long-term. Hope this helps.

    BEC = 72 (6/08/16)
    FAR = ?
    REG = ?
    AUD = ?

    #1689646
    Lentilcounter
    Participant

    @reckedracing

    I used fast forward academy to pass the EA exams back in 2013/2014 also. I don't recall these detailed partnership and s Corp. Basis questions in the study materials or on the exams.

    BEC = 72 (6/08/16)
    FAR = ?
    REG = ?
    AUD = ?

    #1689655
    chitown87
    Participant

    @reckedracing and @lentil counter

    I had a longer post that also seems to have disappeared, but here's the short version:

    If the AVD is chosen, AND the property is distributed before 6 months, AND the FMV at the date of distribution is higher than the FMV at the date of death, which value is used as the basis?

    Thank you both!

    #1689659
    Lentilcounter
    Participant

    @chitown87

    Use the basis and FMV at the date of the property's disposition. Based on the question you presented, the answer would be $4.5K. This is the sale price and FMV and basis. There is no gain or loss. As I said before, this is just one of those rules that you have to remember. In understanding this rule, try to focus more on the date of events (death of decedent date, date of disposition, AVD date) and less on if FMV values are increasing or decreasing between the dates.

    BEC = 72 (6/08/16)
    FAR = ?
    REG = ?
    AUD = ?

    #1689665
    Recked
    Participant

    I feel like Gleim covered basis in depth.
    My books are at the office and I'm “working” from home ie: studying today due to snow in northeast.
    I'll check the books and let you know tomorrow.

    #1689668
    Recked
    Participant

    The FMV is not a concern of yours.
    I believe the exam question will tell you whether AVD was chosen or not.

    The EA exam provided values for estate assets and you had to determine whether to use DoD or AVD, but based on the CPA questions I have done, the questions always tells you whether the executor chose AVD.
    Just know if AVD was chosen you use the 6 month value unless the asset was sold/distributed between DoD and AVD.
    The FMV's are just a distraction to confuse you.

    #1689676
    chitown87
    Participant

    Both of your answers match my understanding as well. My confusion came from the below question:

    Natalie inherited land from her Uncle Josh, who died January 3, Year 4. The basis to Josh was $1,000,000 and the value on January 3, Year 4, was $7,200,000. On July 3, Year 4, the value was $7,600,000. When the land was distributed to Natalie on June 3, Year 4, the value was $7,400,000. This land was Josh's entire estate. Natalie's basis for the estate is:

    A – 1,000,000
    B – 7,200,000
    C – 7,400,000
    D – 7,600,000

    Surgent's explanation is this: “In order to select the alternate valuation date of July 3, the valuation must be lower, resulting in reduced estate tax liability. Since the market value has risen, the value at time of death ($7,200,000) must be selected.”

    Sorry for all the questions. I've probably only managed to confuse myself when I already had a pretty solid understanding haha.

    #1689677
    Recked
    Participant

    In that example it would be beneficial to the beneficiary to use the AVD or distribution date, but that is not allowed because it would increase the estate value and tax due on the estate.
    Hope this helps to clear it up.

    #1689688
    chitown87
    Participant

    OK, I'm with you so far.

    So going back to a question I posted earlier, “Hall was bequeathed 500 shares of common stock under his father’s will. Hall’s father had paid $2,500 for the stock 10 years ago. Fair market value of the stock on February 1, Year 1, the date of his father’s death, was $4,000 and had increased to $5,500 six months later. The executor of the estate elected the alternate valuation date for estate tax purposes. Hall sold the stock for $4,500 on June 1, Year 1, the date that the executor distributed the stock to him. How much income should Hall include in his individual income tax return for the inheritance of the 500 shares of stock that he received from his father’s estate?”

    If the question simply asked what Hall's basis in the inherited shares would be, would the answer be $4,000 because the value at the date of distribution (4,500) would be to his advantage as well?

    #1689704
    Recked
    Participant

    No ignore that I said about being to the beneficiary's advantage. That does not matter for exam purposes.
    The AVD is solely used to lower the tax impact on the estate of the decedent.

    Hall's basis is the same as what is being used by the estate.
    First would be 4000 at DoD,
    but… because the AVD was chosen to lower the taxable estate, the AVD value would be used as 5500…
    BUT, because the shares were sold between DoD and AVD, the sale/distribution date is used of 4500.

    Try and remember DAE in order? DoD, AVD, Exception? Anything to keep that order in your mind.
    If someone DAEs (dies) the beneficiary use DAE ordering rules to determine their basis. Cheesy but it might work for you.
    Or come up with your own word association.

    #1689724
    chitown87
    Participant

    So you're saying Hall's basis would be $4,500? I'm very confused.

    I realize it's a very specific question and may not come up at all on the exam tomorrow.

    #1689734
    Recked
    Participant

    Yes Hall's basis in inherited property is the stepped up basis.
    The stepped up basis is determined by the DAE rules.
    DoD, or AVD, or exception if sold or distributed before AVD when AVD is chosen by estate.

    Basis – selling price = gain or loss. 4500-4500 = 0 gain or loss to Hall.

    Feb 1 DoD $4000 -> Hall sold the stock for $4,500 on June 1, Year 1, the date that the executor distributed the stock to him -> Aug 1 $5500

    There is your time line.
    1st date of death
    2nd alternate valuation date 6 months later.
    Hall's basis would be the AVD basis EXCEPT he received and sold the stock on June 1st, in between Feb 1 and Aug 1.

    #1689776
    scattershot
    Participant

    Specific filing dates for returns…safe to ignore them? I could've sworn I read somewhere in Roger's material that they aren't being tested anymore, but now I can't find where it said that…

Viewing 15 replies - 106 through 120 (of 428 total)
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