[Anonymous]

Hey guys,

I passed FAR with a 77, and it looks bad but at least it is passing lol. Do firms care at all or they only care that I passed/have a certificate?

[Anonymous]

Have you ever considered that the problem may not be the number of CPAs but the number of jobs available.

According to some sources the real unemployment is more than 20%.

[Anonymous]

Hmm, a lot to chew on in this thread. I went to work for a big 4 firm and I had to put what my scores were and how many times I took each section. Perhaps not every firm is like that though.

As far as the exam difficulty…well, I suppose I agree that it should be a little more difficult OR (and I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone) cap the number of times you can take each section.

Just my .02

[mla1169]

I'm with 75 on this. The job market is a bust right now (be glad you didn't go for your RN) and there are infinitely more applicants than positions in all aspects. Sadly this puts employers in the drivers seat, and they can look for any quality that distinguishes one applicant from another. And I've never been in public but it does seem like timing is everything, they hire seasonally.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[qnx688]

I have read that 75% of AICPA members will be at retirement age in the next 15 years. At the very least, that opens a lot more opportunities for future CPAs. Although the economy in my area has been more stable than the rest of the country, I am very surprised you have not been able to land a public accounting job CPAMan. I have several friends that work for great local firms that do not even fulfill the hours requirement for the CPA. In my opinion, the barriers to entry to becoming a CPA are high enough, and a temporary situation in some labor markets is not enough justification to significantly increase the difficulty of the exam.

FAR-7/5/12-88
AUD-8/26/12-94
REG-TBD
BEC-TBD

[Anonymous]

“cap the number of times you can take each section.”

I know this is going to sound strange since I took these exams multiple times, but I actually agree with that statement. I know it's bad for me, but so be it. If I'm not cut out to be a CPA because of the cap, then I'll accept that. At least it's good that the people who pass these exams at higher standards will rest assured that they will get a good job without any issue. That's all I want. I'm only thinking about the future of accountants. Yes, the economy is bad, but the fact that the demand for accountants has turned upside down in just a few years…. well, that's just bad.

I graduated in 2009 at a very small college. There were about 15 of us accounting majors that graduated (like I said, it's a small college). None of us were able to get a job in public accounting upon graduating. In 2008, there were about 12 accounting majors at my school. ALL of them got jobs in public accounting upon graduating. One year, firms are hiring like crazy. The next year, they're not hiring at all. Again, that's just bad, really bad!!

[MeaDebitum]

“I graduated in 2009 at a very small college. There were about 15 of us accounting majors that graduated (like I said, it's a small college). None of us were able to get a job in public accounting upon graduating. In 2008, there were about 12 accounting majors at my school. ALL of them got jobs in public accounting upon graduating. One year, firms are hiring like crazy. The next year, they're not hiring at all. Again, that's just bad, really bad!!”

I see your point, but that's not really a sample representative of the population we're looking at though.

[moey]

Like mentioned above, I think it's the economy too, not just the accounting industry. At my university, in 2009 (I believe), even big 4 companies only recruited 1 intern at the college. Since then I've only seen the number increase. This past year there were so many offers (full-time and internship) given out.

FAR - 90
REG - 75
AUD
BEC

[qnx688]

CPAMan,

I could come around to the idea of a cap, but good luck convincing prometric not to weigh in on that policy lol. I can somewhat relate with your situation. Although I graduated from a large state school, the recruiting at my school was lacking, and I went through completely unrelated avenues. Honestly, I think most colleges are extremely ineffective at providing and encouraging skills that are actually in demand in the labor market and facilitating employment opportunities with their graduates. I honestly believe what your referring too is a temporary situation related to the current economic environment, and the employment outlook for CPAs is very good in the long term. At the very least, I think you would find a high demand for your skills in the state of TN. Think country music lol.

FAR-7/5/12-88
AUD-8/26/12-94
REG-TBD
BEC-TBD

[Anonymous]

To change the words of the all mighty Vin Diesel, “Passing is passing.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkdmu2M7qFo

[Sandra]

3 months ago I would have said let everyone take each section twice, maybe three times and then boot them out of the program. Now I'm not so sure…

First of all- If you put a cap on it the pass rate would go through the roof. People would stop showing up under prepared and they would certainly stop taking naps during the test. Many people fail these tests because they don't prepare. I still see posts on here almost daily “Can I skip so and so section and just focus on ____ ?”

Secondly, I have met some cool smart people on here that just don't take tests well. For every two lazy slackers it seems there is one person that is genuinely smart but just can't quite keep their cool during tests. My only real CPA study buddy I have left, aka, my “CPA Bestie” knows more about FAR, REG and AUD (I'm keeping BEC) than I'll probably ever know yet my scores are higher so far. If the goal is to weed out crappy CPAs, excluding those people is not the way to do it.

Maybe if you fail 3 times scoring in the 60's. But its really hard to draw that line. I do think making the requirements to sit for the test harder would be a good start. However the reality is that every profession has determined idiots that eventually make it through. Short if forcing people to take an IQ test before sitting for the test nothing is really fail proof.

This really only matters for people entering into the profession, whether its public or private practice. Ultimately your experience and accomplishments will allow you to progress up “the ladder” while your dummy CPA buddies will still be staff accountants or inventory counting audit monkeys.

[Minimorty]

I'd like to see a mandatory experience requirement of at least 5 years. There are too many 21-24 year old CPAs with almost no real world experience. Spending twelve months auditing a couple of companies or preparing a few returns for a couple of large tax clients should not be all that is required to become a CPA. It takes years of experience and exposure to many different areas and topics before you should be able to call yourself a CPA.

I also agree that something needs to be done to reduce the number of candidates passing the exam. Perhaps it is making the tests harder. Perhaps it is shortening the window of passing all four exams to 12 months instead of 18 months. Perhaps it is only allowing you to take an exam every other quarter instead of every quarter. Just something to bring the overall pass rate down. Isn't it true something like 80%+ of candidates eventually pass? This is way too high in my opinion.

[jenuno01]

@Sandra – “Ultimately your experience and accomplishments will allow you to progress up “the ladder” //+10000

I guess what makes me feel better is that not all CPAs are created equal. Sooner or later crappy CPAs are weeded out of the profession for being lazy or making a stupid mistake (at least I hope they do). I still believe in Darwin's Natural Selection theory, “the survival of the fittest”

I also agree with @Mini in that the experience requirements need to be increased. I am 23 and would feel more confident having a CPA license after about 5 years of experience, but having that license is what makes us marketable…so you gotta do what you gotta do.

Class of 2012

[jenuno01]

P.S. I better pass REG next week before the AICPA comes to A71, reads and implements these suggestions!!

Class of 2012

[Sandra]

don't worry jenuno… There are way more people on here saying that they need to make it easier, cheaper and faster.

As a sidenote- if the passrate went up or the number of attempts when down the overall cost of taking the exam would go through the roof. So far I've only paid for each section once, although through two seperate applications. I'm already like 1k in for just the tests.

[Anonymous]

Oh, where to begin! First, if I offend anyone, well, I'm sorry, but the lid is off the box.

First, let us think like accountants for a minute. The AICPA and the state boards have a monopoly in this situation. They can charge whatever they want to charge. They can use psychometric evaluation and IRT to decide which questions are considered “hard, medium, and easy.” Someone could have a PhD in Accounting from every university in this country and they still aren't able to call themselves a CPA unless they pass this test. Why, if you had a monopoly such as this, would you ever wipe out 52% of your revenue stream? Hmmm. You wouldn't!

Now, let's think like auditors for a minute. Why would someone be asked for exam scores on a job application? Hmmm. I can think of several reasons and not one of them has to do with how smart you are. First, maybe they are looking for an applicant who can bring in billable hours and someone with 4 perfect 75's might mean to them that this applicant is the type of person who does what needs to be done and moves on. Maybe they want someone with 4 99's because that tells them something else. Or maybe they want someone who is honest about struggling with the exam because being honest means more to them than 4 99's. Anyone can fill out an application and say they got 4 99's. With today's laser printers and photo editing software, just about anyone can make 4 score reports that look and feel just like the real thing. Someone in Human Resources might want to make sure that if they hire that person because they had those 4 99's that they will get licensed in a short period of time. If four or five years pass by and that person still doesn't have a license, then the HR director is going to go pull that application to find out what they said when they were hired. Then someone might have to own up to lying. And then the hammer falls. That person has not only lied to get a job but they provided HR with written, signed, evidence that can be used against them in civil court. Follow the paper trail and think like an auditor and you can find all sorts of reasons to ask this particular question on a job application. I know I would not have wanted to have been so much as the person sweeping the floor in Arthur Anderson's HR dept about 15 or 20 years ago. It's not stupid CPA's that get their picture in the paper. It's the unethical ones that are on the news.

The experience requirement is just like everything else regarding this exam, it varies from state to state. Some states require your supervisor to attest to your auditing, tax, governmental and supervisory experience. I know this because my boss wrote my experience letter last year before he went into the hospital for surgery when he was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Being a 2 time cancer survivor already, the thought he was done for and wanted to make sure that he kept his promise to me. I've met the experience requirement and have the letter to prove it.

How low do we want the pass rate to go? It already fluctuates between 45% and 48%. Do we want to see a 30% or even a 10% pass rate? Who would take the test? Once again, I ask you to think like an accountant. What happens to the revenue stream then? It would dry up to a trickle. If you think you've got a 50/50 shot at something you are more inclined to attempt it. If you have a 1 in 10 chance, then why risk this kind of money, effort and agony? Moving the 18 month rule to a 12 month rule would produce the same result. And what happens to small clients if there are fewer CPA's out there? Most of my clients are mom and pop business that can't afford a Big 4 firm and probably wouldn't be considered by a Big 4 even if they could afford it. Those clients deserve someone who knows what they are doing just as much as larger companies.

I will admit to walking into exams unprepared. I will also admit to working my behind off and still coming up short. I'm not the smartest person in the room but I'm not an idiot either. For example, I have a consulting client, a small governmental body, whose auditor couldn't figure out what was going on with their payroll tax liability account. This was a persistent problem. In fact, it went on for 3 years. Every year their auditor, a licensed CPA, would give the clerk an audit adjustment to correct a material misstatement. The last year he did the audit, the adjustment was $350,000. Now that's a big adjustment for anyone, but for this particular client it was 1/4th of their annual revenues. It was definitely material. The mayor asked my boss if he could look over the audit report and their financials. My boss was busy but threw a copy on my desk and asked me to look over it. It took a full minute to see that they hadn't paid the IRS in 4 years. They owed $1.2 million in taxes, penalties and interest. This guy didn't follow GAAS. He never once asked to see the 941's. But the really remarkable thing is that the licensed CPA missed this little fact and the person who failed 6 times before she ever passed one saw it in a minute!

The point of telling this story isn't to blow my own horn but to point out that even though I struggle taking tests, it doesn't mean that I should be “weeded out”. I'm not alone either. There are more like me than you think. I'm just too stubborn to give up and I'm not afraid to speak my mind. More importantly, I fail to grasp how me, or someone like me, is hurting anyone by testing multiple times. If anything doesn't it improve your chances of passing to take the same test that I'm taking?

Finally, Rocketship!

And Drink!

[Author]

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