Rank the sections from most curved to least curved. - Page 2

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  • #167404
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I think it would be interesting to see what people think is the most curved and the least curved. So, based on your experience, rank the sections from most curved to least curved.

    I’ll go first….

    FAR

    AUD

    BEC

    REG

Viewing 15 replies - 16 through 30 (of 48 total)
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    Replies
  • #340074
    katiekanton
    Member

    @Mini

    I don't disagree with the weighting. Maybe it would help if you could explain how you think the exam is curved.

    AUD - 88
    FAR - 90
    REG - 85
    BEC - 88

    #340075
    Givemesleep
    Member

    So simply put, lets say hypothetically purely based on number of questions I answered 60% of them correct, are you saying there is a chance I passed with a 75 if some of the ones I answered correctly where the more difficult questions? I have hope in my veins again !!

    Reg 11/15/2011 - 80
    Aud 02/28/2012 - 81
    Bec 05/31/2012 - 78
    Far 08/31/2012 - 83 Do you believe in Miracles, YES !!!

    CPA License received 10/2012 !!
    CFE License received 04/2013 !!
    EA License received

    Givemesleep

    #340076
    Minimorty
    Participant

    Ok, but let's use the word “graded” instead of “curved” because nobody seems to be able to agree on the definition of a “curve”.

    The AICPA for years and years has been gathering data regarding candidate performance. This data basically lets them know what percent of candidates get each question right and why they got them right (whether they knew the answer or guessed). They probably gather other data too, who knows.

    From that data, they assign a point value to each question. Easier questions (those that a higher percentage of candidates in the past got right) are given less weight and tougher questions (those that a higher percentage of candidates in the past got wrong) are given more weight. The same concept applies to the SIMS.

    I dont know how many “points” are available on each exam but let's just say it is 100. In order to pass the exam, you basically need to accumulate 75 points. This is not 75%, this is not 75 questions right, this is just 75 points. The AICPA clearly wants the pass rate to be something around 45%. Accordingly, they have designed the exam in such a way that the pass rate is approximately 45%, plus or minus 5% usually. If 100% of the people taking the exam that quarter accumulate 75 points, they would all pass. The AICPA knows this will not happen based on the tens of thousands of exams they have graded in the past.

    You are not compared to current candidates taking the exam the same window as you. You are being compared to the thousands of prior test takers that contributed to the data that the AICPA uses to determine the threshold for passing.

    #340077
    Minimorty
    Participant

    @givemesleep – Absolutely. First, there are a ton of pretest questions that dont even have an impact on your score. Second, you could get all the hard questions right (worth more points) and miss all the easy questions (worth fewer points).

    #340078
    katiekanton
    Member

    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then about what constitutes curving. What you're describing is the way most exams are prepared and graded. Say you sit for an exam in college that consists of 10 T/F which are worth 1 point each, 10 “medium difficulty” MCQs worth 2 points each, 8 MCQ's that the teacher considers very difficult worth 5 points each, and 3 essay questions worth 10 points each. You must assemble 75 points in whatever way you wish to “pass”. The teacher's past experience with students tells him if he asks 20 MCQs in the “very difficult” category no one would pass, so he makes sure he sprinkles some of all difficulties in. The teacher decides the minimum level of knowledge required to “pass” and chooses his questions accordingly.

    That's not curving, that's just normal.

    AUD - 88
    FAR - 90
    REG - 85
    BEC - 88

    #340079
    Minimorty
    Participant

    Ok, so are you saying that we agree that the test is graded this way and the only thing we disagree on is that I call it curving and you say that it is not curving?

    #340080
    katiekanton
    Member

    Depends. Did I describe your theory of how the exam is graded correctly?

    AUD - 88
    FAR - 90
    REG - 85
    BEC - 88

    #340081
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    my theory…..The CPA God in a chair. He puts balls with numbers from 40-50 as if playing Powerball. He closes his eyes and gets one out. The one he selects indicates the % of people who pass. Then he checks his Excel spreadsheet to see who passed. Simple as that. Everything else is just bs.

    #340082
    Minimorty
    Participant

    To a certain extent, yes. I believe the AICPA takes it a few steps further than a school teacher though given the amount of data the AICPA has. I believe that implicit in their determination of an appropriate passing score is a built-in curve. Instead of applying the curve after the fact, they already have a good idea what the bell curve will look like given the amount of data they have. Their question weightings dictate what the curve will be.

    #340083
    Justinnnn
    Member

    There are more than 99 points worth of questions (ignoring sims for a second here) to those who perform well on the first testlet. By getting a harder test you have access to more than 99 points. A system like this gives the AICPA a lot of freedom.

    If you don't think this is true, consider, how else could they weight the questions at the end of a window (clearly the point cap is the MCQ weight, but the points available exceeds the MCQ weight)

    REG 80 2/7/11
    FAR 91 10/8/11
    AUD 97 11/22/11
    BEC 96 2/4/12

    CPA 3/15/13

    #340084
    katiekanton
    Member

    Well I definitely disagree that anything you're describing is curving. Curving by definition involves comparing students to each other or ranking students.

    I agree that ONE of the ways they could assign scores is by using the model you describe and deciding that a set amount of points (which would be more likely to be somewhere around 50 than 75 if our total is 100) is required to “pass”. I actually posted an extended scenario like that about two weeks ago. Short version is, for instance, testlet 1 questions are worth 2 points, testlet 2 and 3 if you do well are worth 5 points each, sims are worth all different amounts (based on a difficulty score assigned to them by the number of correct responses when they were pretest), and you must accumulate 275 points to pass. A med-hard-med test might only have a total possible of 350 points, a med-hard-hard test might have a total possible of 440 points. I actually think that's a better method.

    My original point was that we can speculate, but they have not given us details about how the score we earn is mapped to the score we see. That doesn't necessarily imply curving, and does not exclude the weighting of questions. As a matter of fact, both methods could be combined. The scores resulting from the scenario in the above paragraph could then be ranked and assigned a percentile.

    The reason I lean towards a percentile coming into play somewhere is because of two things that are unexplained by the method in the paragraph above. One, high scores are 99. Never 100. Classic percentile scoring. The second thing I just can't reconcile with the “if you get this amount of points, you pass, period. If you don't, you don't.” is that we can't leave the test center knowing our score. A lot of people have complained that they left the testing center with their GMAT or GRE score but you have to wait for the CPA score. That's not quite as convincing, but it's still a factor.

    AUD - 88
    FAR - 90
    REG - 85
    BEC - 88

    #340085
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The thing that makes this so controversial is that the AICPA is rarely blatant about anything, but in this case they clearly say that the CPA exam is NOT curved. But several people are like, “Oh I bombed so badly. I must've got a 40.” Then the results come in and they're like, “90 baby!! This exam must be curved!!!”

    #340086
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Seems straightforward to me, they grade against prior results so sure theyre “curved” in a way vs prior exam takers.

    https://www.aicpa.org/BecomeACPA/CPAExam/PsychometricsandScoring/PassingRates/DownloadableDocuments/PassRates2011.pdf

    BTW this wont paste right but hopefully you get the idea. One thing I found interesting was the lowest REG score was in Q1 when the “tax experts” are not takign the exam. Ppl have postulated best time to take the REG exam due to the curve, this (albeiit just one years data point) says no just less qulaified ppl taking the exam and failing

    UNIFORM CPA EXAMINATION PASSING RATES

    2011

    Section

    First Quarter

    Second Quarter

    Third Quarter

    Fourth Quarter

    Cumulative

    AUD

    43.88%

    47.95%

    47.06%

    43.18%

    45.62%

    BEC

    42.32%

    46.48%

    52.06%

    45.44%

    47.13%

    FAR

    42.43%

    44.27%

    49.52%

    43.94%

    45.57%

    REG

    41.28%

    45.01%

    45.37%

    44.39%

    44.22%

    #340087
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I wonder if REG will have a 41% pass rate this quarter. That is very low….

    #340088
    moniquiux80
    Member

    Hello,

    I just took FAR at the beginning of April and although I feel pretty confident in the MCQ, I did not have time to finish all of the simulations. I ran out of time and I only answered 3. I m just wondering if I should start studying for FAR again since I did not finish them all. Is there a minimum number of sims that we need to answer in order to pass the test?

Viewing 15 replies - 16 through 30 (of 48 total)
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