[hutchinson29]

I am an accounting student and just finished my 4th year of school. I have 1 more year left to get 150 for the CPA.

I have 2 accounting related jobs right now. One is as a finance assistant where I assist the staff accountant and assistant director of finance with a variety of accounting tasks and I am learning a lot and like both my bosses and my job. I have taken the feedback positively and have seen it as an opportunity to improve.

My other job is as a bookkeeper at a very small business. The owner is only successful in keeping the business alive because she puts out a product that people like, however aside from that, she is not a good business person. The bookkeeping system they have in place is a disaster to say the least. When she hired me she said that she would like me to revamp the system a bit. But that is where I may have went wrong when I accepted the position. She said a bit when in reality it needs a complete ravamping. One would have to have a lot of creativity to make a system worse than what is currently in place. I have tried convincing her that gnucash would be a more efficient way to do at least a part of the bookkeeping, and that it would reduce costs because of decreased labor time. We spend quite a bit of time recording transactions in the current system, up to 30 minutes for 1 transaction. She is not approving of any of the possible implementations. I realize one of her concerns could be that she knows there is a lot of turnover and wants to keep what she is familiar with. The ways she has suggested I revamp the system would require cell referencing poorly input and inconsistent data and on top of that with the way things are currently done there is a lot of inserting of rows which would create problems. When I first got there, instead of making cells bigger they were merging cells which I had to undo because that can create problems if you move the data. I have also tried making the invoices in excel which isn’t as convenient as gnucash but it is a way to do it. She hasn’t approved of any of the implementations to date because she wants advertising on the invoices. I have no problem with that because there are other parts to the business but when it is actually a statement, not an invoice, the number of rows necessary does not leave room for enough advertising on the print out and she doesn’t seem to comprehend that idea. Payroll is also done in excel which can be risky creating potential liability for the business owner.

Aside from not being able to make any changes the boss is very inconsiderate of her employees’ time. This is her only job and she is there less hours than we are. We have to get up for work in the morning and she doesn’t, so some nights she will keep us there until 11:30. I wouldn’t mind it if I was spending that time learning new things or if it had nothing to do with her being unwilling to do any of the work herself. But that is not the case. If we have a question we have to spend 20 minutes searching Google instead of spending 30 seconds asking her because whenever we ask her something regarding any of the non-bookkeeping tasks she just says she doesn’t know and to ask Google. This is stuff related to graphic art for the newsletters. Keep in mind these are things that in the interview I told her I didn’t know how to do. If I spend 30 minutes attempting to figure something out, she will assume no attempt was made at all. An accurate analogy of the feedback I receive from her would be let’s say you are playing a sport and you do something right but your coach doesn’t know what he’s talking about and tries to correct you on it. The majority of the feedback I receive from her is a result of her ignorance, although there is truth to a small amount of her feedback. Asking questions results in criticism because she will assume you are asking because you were not listening, even if you could repeat word for word what she said. An example would be asking what the move to a new location would mean for the bookkeeping staff while we are in limbo and do not have a computer set up in a new location. She would say don’t you remember that 4 weeks ago at 11:30 at night that I said I will be moving the computer to my house. Well yes, I actually do remember that, but my question was related to what that would mean for us. So you want us coming into your house although no customers will be walking in to your house to make payments? OK, fine with me if that’s the case, but I was just asking. You could have been moving it there for your own use only for the week.

So I am considering two possibilities. I give her a phone call and talk about the possible changes with her over a beer and maybe even a PowerPoint presentation on my laptop and see what comes of it. This could bring false hope if it goes well. It could also piss her off. Best case scenario she decides to allow the implementations. Or I can quit. I have 3 jobs right now, so when school starts I will have to quit to only have 2 jobs during the school year. So I will be quitting at the latest the end of August.

If I suck it up and stay and she never approves of any changes I will consider it a waste of my time. I could be getting to bed earlier and then waking up earlier to start my day and working out in the morning. With the 3rd weekend job I just got I will have more than enough to pay my rent and may even have some money saved up upon graduation.

If I stay and she approves of the changes I will learn through the process of implementing and utilizing the system. If that were to happen, i would consider it worth it being a little more tired during the day for the summer. However, I do not know if that will happen.

I figure I have already suffered so I might as well try to get a reward from it, however it could be a situation where it is sunk cost, or sunk suffering so to speak.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[mla1169]

You already know she's resistant to change and it's very unlikely anything you say or do will change that. Now you ask yourself do you want to continue on exactly the way things are, or jump ship? Btw, discussing over a beer is a big no-no. It's fine in a customer-vendor meeting but never for an employer-employee meeting.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[mla1169]

You already know she's resistant to change and it's very unlikely anything you say or do will change that. Now you ask yourself do you want to continue on exactly the way things are, or jump ship? Btw, discussing over a beer is a big no-no. It's fine in a customer-vendor meeting but never for an employer-employee meeting.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[fsugirl2005]

If this is a small business, why on earth was she not using QuickBooks or some other software? Even recording items in Excel would have been worth something.

AUD - 10/21/16 (75----07/2010 expired)
FAR - 10/28/16
BEC - 11/2016
REG - 01/2017

Using Gleim CPA Review, Ninja Audio, Ninja Book

[fsugirl2005]

If this is a small business, why on earth was she not using QuickBooks or some other software? Even recording items in Excel would have been worth something.

AUD - 10/21/16 (75----07/2010 expired)
FAR - 10/28/16
BEC - 11/2016
REG - 01/2017

Using Gleim CPA Review, Ninja Audio, Ninja Book

[hutchinson29]

Well I tried getting them to use QuickBooks but she didn't like the fact that she couldn't put any advertising on the bottom of the invoice. Maybe thats possible but if it is i have never heard if it. There is a lot of stuff in excel but it is done horribly. Invoices are in excel and not in different tabs. Payments are organized by month so when a customer makes a payment for more than just one month it requires a lot of hard entering which lengthens the process. In non-accounting language i have tried explaining to her that that bottom line is someone owes you money, we dont necessarily care for what as long as the check is written to the right department. We have to put things into 7 different places, 2 of which we have to do by pencil. She tried telling me something was a debit and a credit and it wasn't even close. Although we should have a small chart of accounts we do not so its more of an A/R role if you want to call it anything. I am not so sure if its that she's resistant to change or if she is resistant to a college student making the changes. I realize I'm no CPA but setting up a small chart of accounts should be something i should be able to do.

[hutchinson29]

Well I tried getting them to use QuickBooks but she didn't like the fact that she couldn't put any advertising on the bottom of the invoice. Maybe thats possible but if it is i have never heard if it. There is a lot of stuff in excel but it is done horribly. Invoices are in excel and not in different tabs. Payments are organized by month so when a customer makes a payment for more than just one month it requires a lot of hard entering which lengthens the process. In non-accounting language i have tried explaining to her that that bottom line is someone owes you money, we dont necessarily care for what as long as the check is written to the right department. We have to put things into 7 different places, 2 of which we have to do by pencil. She tried telling me something was a debit and a credit and it wasn't even close. Although we should have a small chart of accounts we do not so its more of an A/R role if you want to call it anything. I am not so sure if its that she's resistant to change or if she is resistant to a college student making the changes. I realize I'm no CPA but setting up a small chart of accounts should be something i should be able to do.

[Anonymous]

My take on your situation is that you are ready to walk out the door unless she is willing to let you change things. If that's the case, then I would sit down and have a very honest and sincere conversation with her, and basically tell her that you took this job hoping to be able to improve her accounting system, and that you still want to do so. However, she's going to have to be willing to let you make these changes! Maybe offer to help run the systems simultaneously for a bit (if you're already recording the transaction in 7 places, how hard would it be to add an 8th? 😉 ) so that she can see that it will work. But also make it clear to her that if she won't let you make radical changes, then you're not able to do what you were hired to do, and you'll take your leave and let her do it her way if she prefers.

However, if you do something like this, make sure you'll be able to have it fully off the ground and able to be maintained by her before you leave in August!

[Anonymous]

My take on your situation is that you are ready to walk out the door unless she is willing to let you change things. If that's the case, then I would sit down and have a very honest and sincere conversation with her, and basically tell her that you took this job hoping to be able to improve her accounting system, and that you still want to do so. However, she's going to have to be willing to let you make these changes! Maybe offer to help run the systems simultaneously for a bit (if you're already recording the transaction in 7 places, how hard would it be to add an 8th? 😉 ) so that she can see that it will work. But also make it clear to her that if she won't let you make radical changes, then you're not able to do what you were hired to do, and you'll take your leave and let her do it her way if she prefers.

However, if you do something like this, make sure you'll be able to have it fully off the ground and able to be maintained by her before you leave in August!

[Mayo]

“My other job is as a bookkeeper at a very small business”

Either out your head down and just do what she says or leave. I worked in a similar place in college, and it was bloody impossible to incompetent people competent. For example, I would tell the owner, a manufacturer of stock textiles as well as special orders, that raw materials were considered inventory.

He argued with me, and I eventually let it go. So I spent most of my time customizing invoices and entering cash receipts. Biggest waste of time of my life.

Could the other job offer you more hours/more responsibilities?

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[Mayo]

“My other job is as a bookkeeper at a very small business”

Either out your head down and just do what she says or leave. I worked in a similar place in college, and it was bloody impossible to incompetent people competent. For example, I would tell the owner, a manufacturer of stock textiles as well as special orders, that raw materials were considered inventory.

He argued with me, and I eventually let it go. So I spent most of my time customizing invoices and entering cash receipts. Biggest waste of time of my life.

Could the other job offer you more hours/more responsibilities?

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[KBinMN]

“Well I tried getting them to use QuickBooks but she didn't like the fact that she couldn't put any advertising on the bottom of the invoice.”

This made me laugh a bit. That is about the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using QB. More than anything this says to me “I'm not willing to change”.

[KBinMN]

“Well I tried getting them to use QuickBooks but she didn't like the fact that she couldn't put any advertising on the bottom of the invoice.”

This made me laugh a bit. That is about the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using QB. More than anything this says to me “I'm not willing to change”.

[hutchinson29]

Thanks too all for the replies. There is definitely some helpful information. There are times where she will seem open to change but will not actually approve of any implementations.

KBinMN, yes I agree that is laughable. To be honest while it does show she is not open to change, I do believe that she actually does want advertising and the company's prices on the invoices. From knowing her, I think it speaks more to her lack of business knowledge. I think part of the reason she requested the newsletter on the bottom of the invoice is because she actually thought it might be possible. She claims to want to make things simple but her idea of simple is actually very complicated.

On days when I get there and the person from the shift before me does not have any specific directions, I will work on revamping the system. One time I was revamping where we put the notes for communication. When she got there that day, she asked me what I had been working on so I told her and she says “we already have that.” I felt like telling her well yes, but it is done horribly and the fact that you are okay with that going on in your business that way it is done right now is almost absurd. That was what I thought, I didn't actually speak my mind. The same goes for when she tried telling me something was a debit and a credit. As of right now, there is no GL accounting done by the bookkeeping staff so it wasn't even a relevant statement.

She even asked me to get off of my 8-5 early to be able to work the early shift from 4-7:30, so she could have someone that works 8-5:30 during the day to work for her from 7:30 to 11. To me that just shows she is completely inconsiderate and only cares about her business and not her employees which is the most irritating. For my bosses at my other job I would work overnight if they really needed me no questions asked, but it seems a little ridiculous for her to keep us there that late when she pretty much just hires us to do the work and does almost none of it herself. I even asked if I could have ONE day off (4-5 days home) that I am usually scheduled to fly home to see my family and she didn't give me a definite yes.

Lilla, you are exactly right. I am ready to walk out the door if she is not willing to allow changes. Obviously if it was a good system I would be fine using what is already in place. I don't mean to come off the wrong way, but I don't think working there and getting experience doing things in a completely ridiculous way would be a good use of my energy.

Mayo, well in regards to my 2 other jobs, the one I work as a finance assistant I definitely have opportunities to take on new responsibilities as I continue to work there. I just finished reconciling bank statements for the first time and have been assisting with month end recs since I started working there. At the job I just got I will be assisting handicapped people which can be a fulfilling experience and an opportunity to build skills as a person not necessarily rated to accounting.

[hutchinson29]

Thanks too all for the replies. There is definitely some helpful information. There are times where she will seem open to change but will not actually approve of any implementations.

KBinMN, yes I agree that is laughable. To be honest while it does show she is not open to change, I do believe that she actually does want advertising and the company's prices on the invoices. From knowing her, I think it speaks more to her lack of business knowledge. I think part of the reason she requested the newsletter on the bottom of the invoice is because she actually thought it might be possible. She claims to want to make things simple but her idea of simple is actually very complicated.

On days when I get there and the person from the shift before me does not have any specific directions, I will work on revamping the system. One time I was revamping where we put the notes for communication. When she got there that day, she asked me what I had been working on so I told her and she says “we already have that.” I felt like telling her well yes, but it is done horribly and the fact that you are okay with that going on in your business that way it is done right now is almost absurd. That was what I thought, I didn't actually speak my mind. The same goes for when she tried telling me something was a debit and a credit. As of right now, there is no GL accounting done by the bookkeeping staff so it wasn't even a relevant statement.

She even asked me to get off of my 8-5 early to be able to work the early shift from 4-7:30, so she could have someone that works 8-5:30 during the day to work for her from 7:30 to 11. To me that just shows she is completely inconsiderate and only cares about her business and not her employees which is the most irritating. For my bosses at my other job I would work overnight if they really needed me no questions asked, but it seems a little ridiculous for her to keep us there that late when she pretty much just hires us to do the work and does almost none of it herself. I even asked if I could have ONE day off (4-5 days home) that I am usually scheduled to fly home to see my family and she didn't give me a definite yes.

Lilla, you are exactly right. I am ready to walk out the door if she is not willing to allow changes. Obviously if it was a good system I would be fine using what is already in place. I don't mean to come off the wrong way, but I don't think working there and getting experience doing things in a completely ridiculous way would be a good use of my energy.

Mayo, well in regards to my 2 other jobs, the one I work as a finance assistant I definitely have opportunities to take on new responsibilities as I continue to work there. I just finished reconciling bank statements for the first time and have been assisting with month end recs since I started working there. At the job I just got I will be assisting handicapped people which can be a fulfilling experience and an opportunity to build skills as a person not necessarily rated to accounting.

[hutchinson29]

Thanks everyone for the responses

[Author]

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