[mike_terror]

Hi everyone, for the past few weeks I’ve been browsing through tons of online forums and reading as much information as I can, but I seem to be getting many different views and opinions leaving me still confused. I hope I can get some advice and suggestions from a few people who are in the working field.

I’m currently 23 and will be graduating from a cal state college in 3 more weeks getting my B.S in Business Administration, option in Accounting. Sadly my cumalative GPA will be at 2.97 or 3.0 depending on the grades I get on my final in the next couple of weeks. I originally majored in something else and didn’t take school too seriously during my freshman year which caused the low GPA score.

I worked throughout my whole college life to pay for school tuition since I didn’t receive any financial aid. I have zero working experience in accounting and regret that I never interned for any large company. Now that I’m graduating soon, reality is hit me in the face and I realized that many big firms only recruit out of college or recruit experienced professionals. I wont be fitting into either category!!!

1) I really want to get into public accounting and slave there a few years to gain experience before switching over to private accounting, how can I go about doing this? Based on my situation am I pretty much screwed? or can I still get into a large / mid size firm?

2) With my low undergrad GPA score, would it be worth it to go get a master degree in taxation and hope to get recruited during that route?

3) I plan to study for the CPA exam, but “IF” getting the master degree is worth getting, should I be going towards that path first before studying for the CPA

4) Based on my current situation, do I have any chance of really getting a public accounting firm? is this dream dead?

Any tips or advice will be greatly appreciated!

[T-rex]

The CPA is more valuable than the Master degree, so unless you need the Master degree to sit for the CPA exam, I'd do the CPA first.

AUD - 95, BEC - 85
REG - 85, Rawrrrrrr FAR - 88
Used Becker for all sections.
CA candidate not residing in CA

[mike_terror]

T-Rex, thanks for your reply. Since I'm in California, I plan to do Pathway #2 which requires 150 semester units and will allow the CPA license to be practiced in other states besides just California.

However, I already meet the unit requirements for business courses and accounting courses, I just don't have 150 unit of total college courses. Do you know if I can take any random college courses at a community college such as art, music, etc etc?

Also, my only reason to get my masters in taxation would be for opportunities of job recruitment in college with large firms and have that window open up for me since I'll be done with undergrad. Secondly, also because of my low undergrad GPA, maybe the masters degree would help? Would this be worth it? and also allows a little bit more of marketability compared to other peers by having the MBT?

[T-rex]

No problem. I think it's great that you're thinking about all of this stuff.

No, you can take any random courses. I believe you need a certain amount of business courses and accounting courses. Take a look on the state board's website to get the particulars on the educational requirements.

The Master degree will be great to have too, especially if it's in Taxation, but I don't think it's as valuable as the CPA.

I didn't go the public accounting route, so I hope someone else will guide you there.

Good luck to you!

AUD - 95, BEC - 85
REG - 85, Rawrrrrrr FAR - 88
Used Becker for all sections.
CA candidate not residing in CA

[Anonymous]

What CSU are you planning on attending for your masters? For example, SJSU has a really great recruiting program for its graduate students, but CSUS doesnt have any recruiting at all.

In CA, make sure you look at the changes to licensing requirements that are going to effective for anyone not licensed by 2014. If you end up in a master's program, you probably wont fulfill all the requirements (including experience) by 2014, so you would be subject to the new changes.

Im in CA too, and I missed all the oncampus recriuting because I didn't know that I was graduating that year until Jan, and all the recruiting takes place in Oct. I wrote a cover letter and resume, and sent it to the firms that I was interested in working for. I ended up getting an offer from a mid-sized firm, so it worked out ok even tho I had missed the on campus recruiting, and was not an experienced professional.

[senbi575]

I would go through the college recruiting that is offered at your college, in my experience, this is the best way for you (as a student with no relevant experience) to get an interview with a large/mid tier firm. Make sure you clean up your resume/coverletter and emphasize your business/accounting GPA (hopefully it is better than your average). It is easy to explain your low GPA by talking about your early years in school and not having direction. Most people have been there (me included) and I am sure the person doing your interview has been too.

Don't just settle for large/mid firms, you should cast your net as wide as possible to get a job, you can always transfer to a larger firm once you have some work experience. It is much easier to get into a larger firm with 2 years of relevant work experience than none at all because you only wanted to work at a large firm.

I would go for the CPA and skip a master's in tax, the CPA will serve you much more in your future than a masters in tax. Having passed at least 1-2 parts before your first interview can also add more to your low GPA story, by showing you have the chops to pass (parts of) the exam.

Remember that a GPA gets you that first interview, but your personality and how it fits into the firm is what they really want. They expect you to not know anything during your first year at a CPA firm, even if you were a 4.0 student.

[IwannaBaCPA]

I agree with everything that has been said so far. Put your business/accounting GPA on your resume (assuming it is higher), just be sure you label it that way so when they see your transcript they won't think you were bluffing.

If you are able to reach out to any recruiters through your school, then that is absolutely the route to go. If not, perhaps you can show up at career fairs your school has. If that is still not an option, you will have to do the leg work. Having your CPA exam passed will help in a big way…the firms won't have to worry about paying for it and risking you not getting it done (which happens more often than you may realize).

If you are hoping to be recruited through a Master's program, be sure to speak with the school ahead of time and ask them if they will help you find a job. Ask what the placement rate is for students that complete their program. You will be spending a small fortune on grad school, you need to be aware about how far (or not) that will actually get you…

I don't think you are screwed totally…I mean, sure, you have made it much harder for yourself by not taking advantage of opportunities, but you can't go back and change that. Know that you are not alone in feeling the panic as you prepare for graduation. I really wish colleges prepared students better for that “oh shit, now I have to start my career” moment.

Luckily, I was a little older when I started college (22) and I was able to realize that moment was going to come. I switched majors into accounting my junior year and had no clue about the recruiting process. My school was great at pushing us into interviews and internships. I landed a fantastic Big 4 internship that resulted in a FT offer starting this October. I got lucky, but I also was able to see the huge opportunity in front of me and took it. Looking back, thank goodness I did! I really debated even applying for the internship because it pushed my graduation out a semester, but it was so worth it.

Congrats on finishing college (in 3 weeks). That is a great accomplishment, but that is just the beginning of things for you. Don't limit your job search to only the bigger firms, but certainly start there. I honestly feel like great interviewing skills can make it or break it for just about anyone once they have landed the interview. If your skills aren't great, then get some help with that…

BEC: 79 - April 2011
FAR: 78 - May 2011
AUD: 81 - May 2012
REG: 79 - October 2012
Ethics: Passed - March 2013
I am finally DONE!

[mike_terror]

Thanks everyone for their great support and advice!!! It definitely makes me feel better knowing that I still have a chance, but must work hard.

If I get two A's in my last 2 classes for the next 3 weeks, I will end up with a culmalative GPA of 3.019

Which will then boost my major GPA from a current 3.043 to a 3.113.

I know my grades aren't that great and even @ 3.0 that is considered very low. If I've known any better, I would of stopped working completely during my last few years of college and would have taken up a subsidized loan instead.

The only reason I would consider going to get my masters in taxation @ Cal State Fullerton (or USC if I have the chance) is only for the reason of taking advantage of campus job recruitments, networking, and to redeem myself for the low undergrad GPA score. But based on what everyone else is saying, it doesn't seem worth it to put myself into more debt for those reasons alone and a better option would be to study for my CPA.

Regarding the middle size / regional firms, what would be a recommended way for me to find these firms? The only list that I'm familiar with is https://www.accountingmajors.com/accountingmajors/articles/top100.html but I assume that these are still considered to be large firms?

CalCPASoon, if you don't mind me asking, what mid size firm did you end up getting accepted to. How would I go about finding out more about mid – regional smaller size firms to apply to.

Thanks!!

[Anonymous]

“I know my grades aren't that great and even @ 3.0 that is considered very low. If I've known any better, I would of stopped working completely during my last few years of college and would have taken up a subsidized loan instead.”

I'm actually certain that the reason I landed a job with a major was because I worked full time, went to school part time at night and managed a 3 year old daughter; I was 25 when they offered me a tax associate position. I would make sure to highlight your work ethic in your resume/cover letter. They want to see you juggling many obligations.

Also, I went to Golden Gate University and got my Master In Tax. Considering you are in LA, they do have quite a few classes you could take in person along with some of their online courses. Be warned though, I put far more blood, sweat and tears into my 1 years MST than I did with my 4 year BA Accounting degree. It's hard work even though it's an online platform. One big benefit of GGU is that they don't require a GMAT score. They will focus more on your undergraduate cumulative GPA for enrollment. It has been highlighted as one of the best MST programs in the U.S. and I can attest to that (though I'm totally biased).

“Golden Gate's School of Taxation has earned a reputation as one of the largest and most respected in the nation with specialized internship programs that give students practical, hands-on business experience. GGU has also developed Saturday MBA programs, as well as an executive MBA program, regarded as one of the most unique educational programs in the country for experienced executives, managers and entrepreneurs.”

Home Page

https://www.ggu.edu/courses/browse.do?locations=LAX

Additionally, GGU actually has pretty damn good recruiting as many of the Big 4 firms have preferred the more technical education deployed at GGU. They have recruiting fairs just for their students and all the regional/multinational firms turn out in force.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

@mike_terror, it was a firm based in northern california. Had 3 offices, 150 employees, but their revenues made them top five largest firms on the West Coast, and were nationally ranked in the top 30 fastest growing in the country. I found them by reading doing a search on the local Business Journal to see if any names popped up, I also purchased a list from the local newspaper of the 30 largest firms in the region (including regional offices of national firms). I checked out the websites of some, and pretty much just sent letters to the top 10 firms. I figured if I didn't hear back from anyone, I'd keep going down the list until I found a job somewhere.

Personally, I think regional firms are the way to go! as a second year staff auditor I got to senior entire engagements by myself, got hundreds of hours working directly on the report, and got to audit much more complex sections than Cash and Fixed Assets (like the allowance for loan loss at a bank). But at the same time, my firm was large enough that I got to work on clients with $1 billion or more in assets, they paid for Becker (after making you sign away your soul), and they had lots of paid training days. And because they are so big in this area, it was easy using getting a job in the private sector because out here, that firm name on your resume carries the same weight as the Big 4.

[mike_terror]

CalCPASoon, what was your undergrad cumalative GPA? Your personal experience sounds great and exciting, I hope the same can happen for me!

Based on everyone's suggestion, I know I'll have to work a lot harder compared to other candidates because of my situation. I'm so worried that I wouldn't even mind relocating to Nor Cal if I got an offer haha.

By the way, do you mean a list such as this? (it said you had to be a paid subscriber or pay a fee, but some how the link worked for me, weird)

https://labusinessjournal.www.clients.ellingtoncms.com/la-single-lists/

https://www.cbjonline.com/a2labj/lists/2011-Accounting-1-50.pdf

This was my first time going to that website, I never knew list such as these existed. This seems to be very helpful!!

Do you recommend any other resources that I can check out, maybe like a top 100 list if worst comes to worst and I have to start hitting the firms down there 🙂

[Shanti]

Thank you so much for posting this thread and the great responses! I'm here in Sacramento and didn't think to look up the firms from the Business Journal. Doh!

@Mike_Terror- You're not alone in the non-traditional background. After working for years and owning my own business, I decided to go back and get the accounting units to sit for the exam. I only have small business accounting experience, but my resume looks like I've been around long enough that I should be more than entry level. (At least that's why I'm thinking I'm not getting called back) I too was planning on doing the Masters once I pass my exam so that I could get into the recruiting. It's nice to know that CSUS doesn't have much for grad students and it may not be worth it.

Thanks again for the info!

[Anonymous]

@Mike_terror

Yup, those are exactly the kind of lists I was talking about. My undergrad cumulative GPA was 3.3, major GPA was the same. My undergrad degree was in Business Admin, and my school didn't offer an accounting degree or even an option, so I actually only had 9 or so units in accounting, but I had already been accepted into a MAcc program that was online through CSUS, so I think that helped me get a job. I could work full time and still pursue the MAcc. Also, my undergrad degree was from a Top 5 nationally ranked business program, so I think that helped get me a job too. I think the combination of my education and my solicitation letter showed a lot of ambition, and thats probably what ultimately got me the job.

I like what @Smith said about highlighting the fact that you worked during school in your letter. Part of getting the job of an auditor is showing the firm that you can handle it. Its very high stress, and takes a certain kind of person to be able to deal with all the deadlines, work load, travel, etc. I think if you can come across as someone who is highly motivated and extremely hard working, then that is a way better selling point than the GPA. In my opinion, the GPA is used to make sure that candidates meet a minimum requirement (say for example, 3.0) but a 4.0 from someone who didnt work and took really easy classes doesnt compare to someone with a 3.1 who worked and went to school full time.

I think a top 100 list is fine. There is nothing that says you need to work for a huge firm to have a sucessful career.

Also, keep in mind that the ultimate goal is to be a CPA with attest experience. Any public accounting firm, no matter how small, is still going to give you the experience you need to get that license. I would even just google public accounting firms in your area, check out the websites, and send solicitation letters to those firms as well. The larger net you cast, the more chances you'll have of finding a job. Even if you aren't 100% sure if you would want to work at that firm, I would still send a letter, because you never know how you will feel about it after the interview, meeting the partners, learning more about the firm, etc.

In your solicitation letter, make sure you are sending the right message “Here is what I can do for your firm!” not “I missed on campus recriuting and now Im desparate”. Firms need auditors who are skilled, learn fast, effecient, can stay on budget, get billable hours, organized etc. Highlight in your letter all the ways that you exemplify the ideal staff auditor. You want the reader to come away saying to themselves “wow, i would love to have a guy like this on my engagement team”. Also, I know its hard, but in the letter make sure you keep the focus on THEM. The letter is not about you, its about how the FIRM will benefit by hiring you. Give specific examples of how you've demonstrated ideal qualities, and try not to start sentances with “I”.

Good luck!!!!!!

[mike_terror]

Do you guys think it would be a good idea for me to get my Masters of Accountancy @ Cal State Fullerton? Even though I already majored in Business Administration with an option in Accounting for my undergrad? But just to get another shot at campus recruitment and to redeem myself on my GPA?

Although attending USC for their master's program would look nice on my resume, their tuition is too costly @ $40k+

Secondly, lets say I do end up deciding to go to CSUF, would the recruiting from Big 4's be any different from how it was done during my undergrad years? I keep hearing people mention “Make sure that the master program at the school you're looking at has good recruiting!”. Is the recruiting going to be done differently when getting my masters?

From what I remember during my undergrad years, the options were to either join “Accounting Society” or “Beta Alpha Psi” and attend their weekly guest speaker meetings, and then network with the recruiters afterward. Either that or attend “meet the firms” and again also network. There was never any guaranteed recruiting or different type of procedure from what I remember. Will this be the same case when getting your masters?

[valueofnothing]

@mike terror i got a b4 job out of undergrad, but recruiting at my school was much more than that. each firm has an on campus event pretty much at least once a month, along with career fair days (we had one that was just b4, and one that was just regionals) along with ample interviews… i know my firm hired ~40 full time and ~40 interns from my school and two others hired more people than them.

so i guess my answer means, if you go to a school with “good”recruiting it should be something along those lines where the firms are trying hard to pluck a ton of people from the programs.

REG - 81
BEC - 88
AUD - 85
FAR - 81

[Anonymous]

@mike terror Your undergrad recruiting experience sounds pretty typical. As an undergrad at my school, had a bit more events than what you described, but still basically the same thing. Meet and greet type stuff, nothing is ever gauranteed, and you still had to apply like everyone else through the online student recruiting portal. As a graduate student at CSUS recruiting was non-existant, but Ive heard at SJSU the graduate students go through the same recruiting process with the undergrad, and its very much a big part of the program. Someone on this forum said almost all the grad students in his class at SJSU got placed in internships, and almost all got job offers when they graduated.

So ya, it just depends on how strong the relationships are between your school and the big 4. Some schools have such strong relationships, that the firms actually reserves spots for those students, so for example PWC will reserve 50 spots in each start group for students from UCLA.

Talk to someone at CSUF and ask what options there are for recruiting, if they have special programs for grad students, or how many students get offers before they graduate.

Keep in mind that a MAcc degree by itself is not worth much, especially if you already have a bus admin degree with accounting. Passing the CPA exam is what will separate you from everyone else, and you dont need to spend $20k to do that.

[Author]

Replies