[pfloyd]

Hello everyone, I got hired for my first full-time job beginning on Jan 3. There is only four of us: two accountants who have 30 plus years of experience and a secretary that has 30 years of experience. At first they said I would receive no training and would have to ask questions for help. They started handed me tax returns and last year files and expected me to do them. When I ask questions they seemed a little annoyed and said look at last year. The other partner would be more helpful, but he can be confusing and his answers don’t always make sense lol. The only time I ask questions is when I have a problem with the software, or if the client has very messy work papers and I don’t know what the hell is going on. I try to do the most work I can, but I still feel lost and would appreciate some guidance. I started asking the secretary and she was helping me, but my boss got upset and said I was distracting her even, though it only took a couple minutes and she was okay with it. I was upset because she gave me an idea of where to look and I could confirm I was on the right track. My boss who is in charge of audits expects me to get the work done right the first time and on my own. It’s pretty hard to do it right when you have no experience. I want to do my best, but it seems unreasonable, I could get everything done right without any help.
What do you guys think I should do?

AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
BEC 8/17/2016
FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

[shawn in VA]

Same thing happened to me about 9 years ago. I was expected to know everything, if I asked for help I got the ugly looks. I was expected to look at PY file and figure it out.

I talked to people outside work about this and they told me to just keep asking questions as your new. I would ask only the questions once I tried to figure out on my own.

This was for a regional CPA firm about #13 in the country in size and revenue. They got annoyed after 4 months and tranferred me to another office 20 mins away. Over in the new office I received the training and support that I wanted. Never looked back.

[letsrun4it]

Sounds like a poor work environment. I would have walked away when they said you're going to teach yourself the job. This is 2017, businesses have to operate better than that. You're a CPA, you have options.

BEC: 85
REG: 74, 78
AUD: 86
FAR: October?

[pfloyd]

Hey guys thanks for the advice. Since I've been working hard and trying things on my own, my boss is being more compassionate when I turn my work in. He is actually showing me the right way how to do things.

AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
BEC 8/17/2016
FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

[A]

Way to go!

B - 77 (2.27.16)
A - 81 (4.18.16)
R -
F -

Roger Review + Ninja MCQs

[pfloyd]

Ya if my boss gets mad at me I won't take it personally. I am just going to do my best every day and keep pushing myself. If they get rid of me, I'll just move on, but at least I know I gave it my all.

AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
BEC 8/17/2016
FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

[SeattleCPA]

Bricknell said, “…In that case, many smaller firms just get the new person to do all the work and try to churn them out within a year or two to work for one of their clients.”

In my experience, and that includes working for both large and small firms and running my own small firm, this is not true. Further, the AICPA's MAP survey data says this isn't true either

No firm, large or small, wants to spend time carrying you and training you for a year or two and then have you leave. Well, they don't want to do that unless they conclude that they aren't going to be able to train you.

Where firms make money is with seniors… people who can do lots of complex work with little handholding. These folks bill maybe 80% of what a director or partner bills… but cost maybe a half as much a director costs and maybe an sixth of what partner earns.

I've shared this tip before, but anyone wondering about this stuff should dig up a copy of the AICPA's MAP survey and pour over the numbers.

[Anonymous]

@SeattleCPA

“Where firms make money is with seniors… people who can do lots of complex work with little handholding.”

What do you define as complex work? What are Seniors capable of that can't be automated or done at a much faster pace by an accountant at a higher level? What skill makes a Senior so valuable and “unexpendable” compared to the next?

Working in public accounting is much like how drafts work in professional sports. To the Partners and Senior Managers, lower level employees are essentially playing cards.

[Substantive Testing]

@jstella1993, First audit job is always hard, people expect you to be running on day 1. And due to the fact that senior/managers/partners only sleep 3-5 hours, and that coffee and tobacco is the only thing that keeps them awake, their tolerance for error is much lower. I recommend you to grab prior years workpapers and try to recreate them yourself during a weekend. Pretend its a FAR simulation, and slowly, you will start to understand how all the information flows. I didnt really know what I was doing until I got a first year client, and I had to create workpapers from scratch, and thats when I caught up with others. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but remember that you are doing it for yourself (knowledge enrichment) and not for your firm.

[Substantive Testing]

@brickell cpa, from what I have seen, anybody can be an audit staff, but not everyone can be a senior auditor.
Senior auditors are the ones who do the hard work and audit complex sections such as revenue, stockholders equity, SEC/Gov filling, which staffs might lack the knowledge/experience to do, and managers/partners don't want to do. If there is a total budget of 300 hours for an audit, senior auditor must likely going to get 200 hours out of the 300 budgeted.

[Anonymous]

It's the same with Senior Auditors and staff though. Do you know why you hear Seniors at the Big 4 give their staff a hard time often? It's because they want them to quit or leave so that they have better job security. Upper level positions might take a few people under their wing and create a working relationship, but if an employee is the outlier and hasn't established any meaningful relationships or made themselves useful, they will be given a hard time and will get stuck doing the same repetitive tasks instead of taking on new responsibilities.

That's why in my original post that SeattleCPA responded to, the part he left out was that I said “If you are not a CPA, then you would be highly expendable…”

Which is true. If you have your CPA, you will become more valuable and will likely be treated with more respect rather than another expendable accountant (which most staff and even Seniors are). Getting ahead is political just as much as it is skills/merit based at most firms that have a decent reputation and are focused on more than just the bottom line.

[Substantive Testing]

I did not know this was another B4 post. Because if it is, then you are absolutely right. We backstab each other to climb the ladder. But at this point, CPA license has very little meaning (you will be surprised how many people who has licenses apply to the B4 or any big firm, so many that they become expendable), and its all about who can do things right and has more merit points with manager/partner.

[Anonymous]

Hmm okay, thanks for the perspective. It's interesting all the different experiences out there. I will hopefully be making the transition from small firm to Big 4 once I complete the exam. Still trying to get a handle on what exactly to expect though. I had a similar experience to OPs where they are pretty tough on you and want you to figure things out on your own for the most part. Kind of counterintuitive if their goal is to be cost-effective.

[pfloyd]

Ya this thread got hacked into a big 4 lol. I plan on going into private hopefully it accounting after a few years in public

AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
BEC 8/17/2016
FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

[Substantive Testing]

You wont be able to succeed/learn too much if you do not trade your soul to public accounting.

[pfloyd]

Hey, guys, I had a rough day, my older boss called me and went over a few minor mistakes I made on my return. I guess the software code put a cash contribution as a noncash contribution and he said I was sloppy and must not give a shit about my work. I was stunned and told him I do care, but I am still learning and have little experience. He said if I make any more mistakes he will let me go after tax season. He seems upset when I ask questions,but even more upset when I make errors, do you think if I get let go after tax season it would look bad on my resumre or should I leave it off. I double check my work but it is still hard to catch everything the first time. Do you guys think it is common to make mistakes at a new accounting job or am I going to be a bad accountant ? Thanks

AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
BEC 8/17/2016
FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

[Author]

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