Struggling at New Job

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #1476175
    pfloyd
    Participant

    Hello everyone, I got hired for my first full-time job beginning on Jan 3. There is only four of us: two accountants who have 30 plus years of experience and a secretary that has 30 years of experience. At first they said I would receive no training and would have to ask questions for help. They started handed me tax returns and last year files and expected me to do them. When I ask questions they seemed a little annoyed and said look at last year. The other partner would be more helpful, but he can be confusing and his answers don’t always make sense lol. The only time I ask questions is when I have a problem with the software, or if the client has very messy work papers and I don’t know what the hell is going on. I try to do the most work I can, but I still feel lost and would appreciate some guidance. I started asking the secretary and she was helping me, but my boss got upset and said I was distracting her even, though it only took a couple minutes and she was okay with it. I was upset because she gave me an idea of where to look and I could confirm I was on the right track. My boss who is in charge of audits expects me to get the work done right the first time and on my own. It’s pretty hard to do it right when you have no experience. I want to do my best, but it seems unreasonable, I could get everything done right without any help.
    What do you guys think I should do?

    AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
    BEC 8/17/2016
    FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
    REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 45 total)
  • Author
    Replies
  • #1476178
    A
    Participant

    “Use what you know to learn what you don't.”

    My first job in public had a similar vibe; the partners and directors expected us to teach ourselves by referring to the readily-available PY workpapers. Some of us were better at this approach than others, but we really were expected to give something an honest shot before simply asking for an answer. Don't take this as an attack at all, ‘cuz I understand exactly how you feel – but as you assess your situation, be honest with yourself: Are you giving full effort when you attempt to figure something out before you go looking for outside help?

    Good luck, I ended up learning an amazing amount of stuff in my first year just by toughing it out and taking more initiative to self-teach.

    B - 77 (2.27.16)
    A - 81 (4.18.16)
    R -
    F -

    Roger Review + Ninja MCQs

    #1476190
    pfloyd
    Participant

    I understand what you are saying. I say I do more than an honest effort I try to get the whole project done, the problem is some of the work papers can be so confusing I don't know if I'm on the right track or just doing it completely wrong and wasting time. The bigger issue is my boss wants it right the first time so I can I be sure it is totally accurate if I don't ask questions for clarity?

    AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
    BEC 8/17/2016
    FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
    REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

    #1476249
    livealittle
    Participant

    my first job in public was like that. I don't learn well by just looking at something and trying to figure it out. Some people can, some people can't.

    I would say develop a plan or checklist for what to do.

    you get the papers from the client,
    1st – organize papers by where it goes on the return – income, deductions for AGI, itemized deductions, capital gains, schedules – c, D, F, E, whatever, K-1 income, etc.
    2nd – enter what you know in the software
    3rd – look at last year and verify you entered the same papers from this year where last year went
    4th – anything new or different?

    then see what you don't know and try to figure out where it fits. Then, when you do need to ask questions, maybe have a stack of several returns with all your questions and approach it as “can I have about 30 minutes to go over some questions on the Jones and Smith returns?”

    when you get your time to ask questions, briefly recap – I sorted by type, I entered what I know, but this casualty loss and partial insurance repayment is something I am not familiar with, can you make sure I'm on the right track?

    or whatever is causing you problems.

    no one showed me the software at my first public job, When my “trainer” went to review my work, she was like, had some trouble and had to use the override feature, huh?

    so some formalized training is definitely helpful, but as a previous poster said, you will learn a lot if you don't give up.

    BEC - 8/8/16
    REG - 66, 77
    AUD - 81
    FAR - 9/8/16

    #1476280
    pfloyd
    Participant

    Thanks for the replies guys. I am more concerned with auditing and being able to use judgment and determine which audit steps to take and which controls need to be tested properly. A lot of that stuff you have to have experience and know how to apply different scenarios. You can't just look at last years. Do guys think I should hand it my work even though there might be some things I am unsure because my boss gives vague responses? When I ask my boss questions there not much help. He also said if he has to review the work and make corrections he'll just do it himself. I though part of public accounting was learning from mistakes and improving concurrently. I am expected to be spotless my first time I do something? I am definitely not a quitter and will try my best.

    AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
    BEC 8/17/2016
    FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
    REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

    #1476310
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Advice: keep looking around for another job. Keep your eyes open. There is nothing worse being in a job that you have to drag yourself to every day.
    Some people in this world are just * not * nice. A couple jobs ago, one of the four team members I worked with was just a witch. She even had long black hair.
    The others were nice, but she wasn't! I dealt with her professionally, and we parted ways amicably on my last day. But in between….ughhh! Best of wishes.

    #1476313
    Jdn9201
    Participant

    I get that you don't want to ask them for help on every little thing, but it's unreasonable for them to expect you to turn things in correctly when you have no experience. Part of their job as a manager, etc. is to bring new employees up to speed. I'd keep your eye out for another job. In the meantime, if they refuse to help I'd make the best attempt possible then just turn your work in for review. Force them to teach you how to do the task by telling you everything you've done wrong.

    BEC - 88 8/29/15
    REG - 82 11/14/15
    AUD - 83 1/8/16
    FAR - 80 2/29/16

    #1476427
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Completely agree with @jdn9201 If they want you to do it right, they need to make sure you know how to do it! That's expected. Bosses who expect you to work magic without having the proper tools to do what is expected are called BAD BOSSES. They get a lot of joy out of pointing fingers and blaming. Whenever this witch at my old job told me “you did this thing wrong”, my answer was “Okay, so show me how to do it right.” Volley the ball right back over the net! πŸ™‚

    #1476465
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    That is the nature of public accounting. The first year (at any firm) is usually learning your way around the office and files. This type of office will continue to test you and make things harder on you, but you will also learn a lot.

    These smaller firms tend to be highly conservative. To survive in them, you essentially have to detach your emotions and become another cog in the wheel. That's how they function. At the same time, you still have to be likable, keep positive, and be comfortable when dealing with clients.

    #1476468
    pfloyd
    Participant

    @Brickell, I understand what you are saying, I have thick skin and expect them to be stern. However, I want to make sure my work is correct so they continue to give me work instead of them doing it themselves and letting me go after tax season. I understand that is public accounting norm, but I don't like being put in a position to fail, and having unreasonable expectations. Crazyleon and jd9201, thanks for the advice I do want to keep this job as long as I can. Maybe I'll tell my boss I am committed to being fully independent, but it is my first time doing this work and would be very difficult for it is correct the first time, I can't read their minds and know the information lol. I don't understand how someone with no experience can get audit work papers right the first time lol. They said I seem smart and have a high GPA so I should be good ha.

    AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
    BEC 8/17/2016
    FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
    REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

    #1476493
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Oh wow. Maybe I just got lucky, but from my experience, this is not the public accounting norm. Its common, but its not supposed to be the norm. Communication is key, in fact, I think it is required? Especially for an audit? I would classify this work environment as toxic. There are way, way better environments out there. With experienced people who communicate and train, who are committed to developing competent staff, not just dump last year on your desk and demand results. That's awful.

    The way it was explained to me is kind of funny: Have you ever heard of SALY? Same as last year? That is the weakest way of doing work. Because SALY has a brother, WALY. Wrong as last year.

    I suspect that this is how the more experienced people were forced to learn, so they are doing the same to you. It doesn't make it right; it might be all they know. The problem with this type of sink-or-swim environment is that you gain experience by trial and error, not by having a deep understanding of what you are doing. After a while, you can get the job done but you can't explain why. Because you don't know. The best you can say is, that's how we've always done it, or I did it this way last time and it made it through review, so I guess its right. That's not a good foundation. And that might be why no one wants to really answer your questions – because they don't know. They didn't get a good foundation, and now you are following in their footsteps. I'm just speculating here, but I wouldn't chance my professional development to an environment like this. I actually want to cultivate deep knowledge that I can communicate to others clearly. But I'm just speculating as to their motivations. There's no way for me to know for sure.

    Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they might just be testing you to see how tough you are. Once you pass their “test”, then they might open up, take you under their wing, and teach you all the things you want to know. That would be nice.

    It is what it is. So far as your career is concerned, a word of caution: if you leave a job too early, it looks bad on your resume. It looks like you couldn't cut it or you failed. If interviewers ask you why you left your job after such a short time, and you start talking about how awful the environment was… you look like a whiner who makes excuses. Make the most of your time there, maximize the benefits to your abilities, and learn what you can. Don't be afraid to get fired because its a shit job anyway and, unless they straighten up, then its a temporary job anyway. Watch out that your stress levels don't start harming your health. When you are ready to move on, tell the recruiter or interviewer that this job was great because you gained exposure to a variety of work over several industries, but that a tiny CPA firm is not the best fit for you. Your skills would be better suited to a medium to large firm (or company).

    Until then, survive by completely duplicating last year's work papers. Just update the date and replace last year's numbers with this year's numbers. When you hit something that you don't understand, make a note to go back later or google it or ask questions on a professional forum like this one. Don't let it your questions hold up the work progress. Some of your concerns will be valid, some will be immaterial, and some will be easily fixable after the fact. You have to manage the risk that you will make an error due to inexperience. It seems like preventing the error by asking questions is the best way to go, but its not always possible. Remember that in risk management you also have detection (like someone reviewing your work), and response/damage control.

    Hope that helps a bit? Things will get better from here, I'm sure of it! πŸ™‚

    #1476594
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @jstella1993

    I would say if you were not a CPA yet, then you would be highly expendable. In that case, many smaller firms just get the new person to do all the work and try to churn them out within a year or two to work for one of their clients.

    But it looks like you passed your exam so in my opinion, that gives you a bit more leverage for them to want to keep you at the firm long term. In my opinion, they will continue to test you until you build solid relationships with the clients on your own by being more personable and showing your abilities to perform well under higher stress/pressure.

    Many firms operate differently, but that is essentially what I've learned from my experience with the smaller firms. Let me know if you have any questions, best of luck to you πŸ™‚

    #1476597
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Interview tip: If you get let go from a job or quit after a short time, tell future interviewers “It was only a temporary job; I filled in for the regular person while they were out on medical leave.” It works!

    #1476604
    A
    Participant

    Please ignore any advice suggesting you should lie in an interview.

    B - 77 (2.27.16)
    A - 81 (4.18.16)
    R -
    F -

    Roger Review + Ninja MCQs

    #1476640
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    No, please don't lie in an interview about your *experience* – and if anything, you should be completely frank about your skills (if you are lacking). BUT – you can use the line “What I don't know, I can learn, and I learn most things fast.” But, sometimes jobs don't last long and interviewers are way too nosey. Explaining gaps in employment is an awkward thing…but, it can be overcome by saying the right things. Do you want the job or don't you?! πŸ™‚

    #1476652
    pfloyd
    Participant

    Yeah I don't wanna lie, I could say it got slow after tax season and they needed to cut down on personnel. THanks brickwell, could I get your email to ask questions. I'll just do my best, I don't mind stress that much I know whatever is going to get done is going to get done.

    AUD 5/27/16 74 &#%!! 7/13/2016 86!
    BEC 8/17/2016
    FAR 11/04/2015 73, 1/4/2016 75 (phew!)
    REG 2/26/2016 74. 4/2/2016 79

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 45 total)
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