Moving from Small to Mid-Size

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #1789414
    jenpen
    Participant

    I am looking to move firms now that I am finally a CPA and tax season has ended. I currently work for a really small firm (started with me and 2 partners, but then they bought another firm so still small, just added 10 employees) and I am hoping to get into a mid-size firm in a tax focused role. I had an interview yesterday with a firm that I’ve been looking at for around 2 years. I would be going in as a level II, which I am probably slightly overqualified for but I don’t have enough tax experience to justify trying to get a senior position.

    My worry is about the hour stuff. There is more OT built into the salary, which I am sure will be fine. But they were talking about having enough chargeable time and that I’ll have a certain amount to hit. I thought I understood at the time, but now I think I’m making it overcomplicated and confusing myself. Can ya’ll tell me about how this typically works (I understand each firm is different) and what I will be kind of looking at? I don’t have any time requirements where I’m at so I’m psyching myself out over this.

    AUD - 56 - 68 - 61 - 9/8/16
    REG - 75
    FAR - 7/15/16
    BEC - TBD

    Wiley CPAexcel and NINJA 10 Point Combo

Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • Author
    Replies
  • #1789435
    maxb
    Participant

    Seems like you have a good thing where you are with the firm expanding. I wouldn’t leave small for midsize…big4 maybe but not midsize.

    #1789444
    jenpen
    Participant

    I want to focus on tax, but they are years away from having enough to fill a position like that. Right now my day-to-day is a lot of bookkeeping, payrolls, and audits, which I want to get away from. Plus I should be able to get a $17k pay bump and insurance which is not offered at my current firm.

    AUD - 56 - 68 - 61 - 9/8/16
    REG - 75
    FAR - 7/15/16
    BEC - TBD

    Wiley CPAexcel and NINJA 10 Point Combo

    #1789756
    ruggercpa2b
    Participant

    I went from Big 4 to mid sized and learned so much more at the midsized in one year than the 2.5 years I was at Big 4. Each year you have so many billable hours you have to hit. When you work busy season hours, its easy to hit those hours. As long as you get work, it should not be a problem. Good luck!

    AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
    BEC - 8/20/2016
    REG - TBD
    FAR - TBD

    I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

    #1790322
    Adam
    Participant

    Where in IL are you?

    I'd jump ship..I've quit two firms and was laid off by two all in 2 years in IL lol

    The job market in Chicago sucks though unless you have connections, you may end up at a crappy firm, like me. Or have a 3 hr commute..also like me at one point.

    I'd never think twice to about moving to another place after the way ive been treated by these people, but the silver lining is I'm looking at a 25k raise in 2 years lol with plenty of vacation.

    #1790634
    jenpen
    Participant

    @Adam I'm down near STL. The job market doesn't seem to be terrible around here, but you basically have to go to STL in order to get the money. Your story sounds like my worst nightmare! I'm so nervous to make a move. The firm I'm looking at will more than double my current commute, and I'm just afraid that everyone is lying about how great the firm is. And the drive just makes me so nervous.

    I actually got a call yesterday about scheduling an interview with a private company. It's a tax accountant position like (I think) I want, and this job would actually shorten my commute by about 10 minutes, so that would be a perk.

    There are just so many different directions I can go, and I'm terrified to make the wrong choice. I've been very spoiled with my current firm (been here 4 years and it's been my only accounting job…I worked in legal for 7 years before this), but I also feel like I've reached the ceiling and have gotten all that I can out of it.

    AUD - 56 - 68 - 61 - 9/8/16
    REG - 75
    FAR - 7/15/16
    BEC - TBD

    Wiley CPAexcel and NINJA 10 Point Combo

    #1790686
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    When you feel like you've gotten all you can out of a job it is definitely time to move on, especially as you are wanting to experience different types of work (ie, focus on tax). I work in the nonprofit sector and I'm on my third job in 11 years – I left the other two when I realized I had nothing else to learn there and there was no upward growth opportunities. One of the moves was from Springfield, MO to Kansas City which was a complete leap of faith. I have not regretted any of my moves. I started getting bored at my second job (the one that I moved to KC for) faster than I expected, but it led me to my current job which is a huge shift in my responsibilities and a big learning experience.

    I say – make the leap! If it doesn't end up working out, you look for something else.

    #1790808
    jenpen
    Participant

    I'm definitely leaping, just not sure where I want to leap to. I am second-guessing myself at this point. Is tax really what I want? Do I really want to stay in public? What about just becoming a staff accountant for a company? Ugh. Too many choices…

    AUD - 56 - 68 - 61 - 9/8/16
    REG - 75
    FAR - 7/15/16
    BEC - TBD

    Wiley CPAexcel and NINJA 10 Point Combo

    #1790962
    Josh
    Participant

    I did 5 years of retail management while getting a BBA in Business, realized that was the broadest paint brush you could possibly paint with, and re-enrolled immediately after graduating to do a second BBA in Accounting (we didn't have a separate degree for accounting so I now have 2 BBAs to hang).

    I interned for a local firm doing tax during my accounting program. Roughly 4 CPA operation spread over 5 offices in 1 county. Plenty of growth room. I graduated and that same firm made me a full-time offer. I took every scrap of a return or IRS notice I could eventually carving out a representation segment eventually jumping from staff to manager of one of those offices. It sucked at first, I think I made $12 an hour for the first 6 months and billed 3x my payroll costs. Bumped to salary at 40k, limited bennies.

    We improved at what we did, merged and ate other businesses, more pay bumps. Eventually I'm preparing about 500 returns a year and managing an office pumping out 1500 in total. I'm also in-charging several reviews and 12-15 audits (a few were every other year government entities). Charge hour commitment shook out to 2000 billable hours and 200 admin for the year at 60k – 65k salary. No schedule commitment. At this point it's been about 5 years since I had started.

    I felt I had outgrown my peers. I was consuming complex issues without a lot of oversight because the scary stuff went straight to me. I didn't like that because I wanted to be mentored and molded into what I thought of as a great CPA. Mind you I've passed all but 1 exam situation at this point but kept putting my testing off to run the business.

    The firm started to feel like a cage that I was suddenly too big for and had no room to move. I could make partner but to what end without being fed more knowledge? The current partners were too old to stay much longer than the 5 years I had already put in so I started looking, found a Senior Accountant spot with a top 12 firm and went for it. Hired in 2 weeks flat on an audit team.

    I spent 6 months in what I would call mid-size spanning 20 states and overseas. They gave me a pay increase to join. My charge hours were about 1800 for the year but that was to look nice on paper, the actual charge hours were more like 2400 on average. Traveled all over the US depending on what team needed me.

    But why would a nice sized company take a chance on a non-licensed senior from a small firm background? Because I had my hands in everything in that small firm. If I had a dollar for every auditor I've met that's never done a payroll, filed a form 990, or even posted an accrual JE I wouldn't need to work. The larger firm utilized my input on every aspect of our process to become more efficient in testing, decrease charge hours in non-essential areas, and integrate more work our team could do that was typically farmed out for lack of knowledge.

    I really appreciated the experiences I was able to have and the clients I had the opportunity to work with at the larger firm but all of my essential experience came from the grind at the small firm. You'll hear a lot of people with experience in both refer to it as a breadth vs. depth situation.

    I personally left public after six months in that larger firm. I wasn't any closer to passing that last CPA exam and there was just a lot of struggle to get settled into a larger firm lifestyle. I landed an offer to be a Financial Analyst for a large governmental organization (Higher Ed) in the Big 10. I handle our external audit, budget, financial statement preparation, as well as pieces of the day to day accounting. I've never dreamed of such great benefits and out by 4pm. I still love tax so I remain consulting and preparing returns outside of my primary role. Salary raises are less of a % but competitive with the market in terms of initial rate and for each position you can be promoted to.

    Any experience is good experience. If you've got time to try something new I say go for it, learn from it, and use it to finish painting your idea of the perfect end game position.

    #1791009
    Adam
    Participant

    Man Josh that;s quite the story lol..

    But Jennifer I think it just comes down to figuring out what you want..I will say don't worry about my situation or it being a nightmare, if you have several years of experience and the CPA you have nothing to ever worry about again. I freaked out originally getting laid off in Jan at my first firm, but really most places dont seem to care as long as you can talk the talk and know what youre doing. I will say that if you're scared they're lying, they probably are..lol I've been lied to at all 4 places ive been..some bigger lies then others..

    I actually went to school in STL lived in Glen Carbon, Edwardsville and Soulard..

    Honestly if you feel like you have gotten all you can out of public move on and take the industry job, I have a mixture of tax and audit but am trying to get more audit experience which is tough coming from small firms as most companies dont need audits and everyone needs tax. My Goal is my own firm so i dont have to deal with BS anymore from “bosses” and I can fire clients if i choose to..So sadly I have to stick it out for several more years in public, and at this point trying to explain 4 places to a dipshit HR person probably wont do much good.

    I'm looking to move to Nashville or possibly back to STL since those job markets are much healthier imo and like you said plus the pay is about the same as chicago where cost of living is much less.

    #1791091
    jenpen
    Participant

    @Adam – Small world! I work in Edwardsville currently, so if you're looking for a job with a mix of audit and tax down here, I may be able to help you out. 🙂

    As for the lying – it's just one of those things where it sounds too good to be true. Like, all the employees that I've talked to have pretty high reviews of the firm, plus they have a high rating on GlassDoor. But my husband got in my head about the commute so now I'm all nervous about that. If it wasn't for that tiny detail, I would probably jump. I got an email from the Chief Administrative Officer (since the HR person I've been dealing with is out of town for 2 days) wanting to keep moving forward, so I'm slightly freaking out. In my mind, I wasn't going to hear anything more for a few more days.

    Having the option to move would be wonderful, especially so we could both be closer to work, but my daughter is getting ready to start high school so I feel like we are locked for at least the next 4 years.

    AUD - 56 - 68 - 61 - 9/8/16
    REG - 75
    FAR - 7/15/16
    BEC - TBD

    Wiley CPAexcel and NINJA 10 Point Combo

    #1791117
    PJ
    Participant

    Jennifer,

    Try reaching out to a few former employees on LinkedIn. See if they have horror stories about the firm or if the firm really is a good place to work. They'd likely shoot you straighter than a current employee.

    #1791256
    jenpen
    Participant

    Great idea, @PJ! It took me a minute to figure out how to find former employees, but I was successful. I sent a couple of messages, so hopefully I'll hear something back. I guess this would be a good thing, but there wasn't a long list of previous employees and most that did come up seemed to have either only been interns or they had moved up to big 4.

    AUD - 56 - 68 - 61 - 9/8/16
    REG - 75
    FAR - 7/15/16
    BEC - TBD

    Wiley CPAexcel and NINJA 10 Point Combo

    #1792450
    Josh
    Participant

    I really should have just TL;DR get that experience, sorry folks.

    I eventually want my own firm with a couple of other CPA friends so my career choices are driven by my end goal. Totally not a bad deal to have someone else paying for my benefits right now either!

    Good luck!

    #1792561
    jenpen
    Participant

    Ha no worries Josh. It's always fun to hear about other people's experiences…at least, I enjoy it.

    Everyone in my family keeps telling me I should eventually open my own firm, but honestly I have zero desire to do that. I'm just fine working for someone else and letting them have the stress. But good for you for having goals! I think part of my problem is that I don't know where I expect to be in 10 years.

    AUD - 56 - 68 - 61 - 9/8/16
    REG - 75
    FAR - 7/15/16
    BEC - TBD

    Wiley CPAexcel and NINJA 10 Point Combo

Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • The topic ‘Moving from Small to Mid-Size’ is closed to new replies.