[Swatee]

Hi I am a licensed CPA but I recently lost my job because of performance issues.I was working as a Senior Accountant and in my terms I was working hard and doing well.My manager told me that I lack problem solving and analytical skills so he asked me to leave.This has happened to me the second time when I lost my jobs b because of performance reasons.At each just b my tenure was one year.Does that mean accounting is not for me, how can I help myself?.

[TommyTheCat]

rb well played. pepe sylvia pepe sylvia

[Anonymous]

It just goes to show the lack of understanding of the legal and ethical environment of the accounting field by accountants.

Have you ever read your employment contracts or your HR files? When you are running a business one of your goals is to mitigate any liability and reduce costs. A big part of this is accomplished by protecting yourself from insurance claims and getting sued. That's why many firms… yes, MANY firms, not ALL… will set you up to fail.

How is it possible a firm is seeking to retain good talent when their training practice is to only accept answering a new employee's question once? That is not an open door policy nor is it good practice, that is setting people up to fail and essentially telling them “you're on your own”.

Bottom line, employers pay attention to their budget and billings closely. When they've got their moneys worth out of you, you become highly expendable and if they don't like you or you haven't been connecting with others, regardless how well you know accounting, they'll get rid of you easily.

The work we do isn't very difficult and can be easily taught even to people who have non-accountant backgrounds. All your work is generally reviewed and checked at several levels either internally or externally as well… all by people who want to ensure their job security and likability by the boss as well. That's why sooner or later you'll have to know the politics.

There's literally nothing I've said that constitutes a conspiracy. It's common practice in the accounting industry for employers to hire accountants for the busy season and let the ones they don't like go. Whether it's a new staff accountant that doesn't connect with anyone at the office or a senior who has gotten stale and can be easily replaced by new staff and reduce costs by saving on payroll.

That's also why companies created intermediary positions between Senior and Manager like “Supervisor” or “Senior I, II, III”.

It's so they can retain “talent” without having to fork out as much cash when in reality that person can probably market themselves and go to any other company, get paid more and a better title.

But the firms without those intermediary positions have a different tactic which is basically to churn and burn the person who is seemingly the weakest link.

[Anonymous]

On top of all that you also have to be aware of the leadership at your company. Meaning who answers to who. If your company is public and has a BOD or large HR department, chances are it will be a much more fair practice compared to a private company or smaller mom and pop shop with no BOD.

Even at the larger firms… companies like RSM are much more fair toward minorities than companies like Grant Thornton.

While RSM actively recruits and advocates for minorities and promotes diversity, GT on the other hand is more old school and “good ol boy network” based where they might hire a few token minority accountants here and there and claim they are promoting workplace diversity.

None of this is a conspiracy. It's real life and the world we are living in but it's easy for people to ignore/deny it if it doesn't apply to them or if they lack critical thinking. It's called willful ignorance when you don't pay attention to reality. And if you have any substantial auditing background, you'll know that the “devil is in the details”. In other words, things aren't always what they seem on the surface, especially in a highly Machiavellian society like the US.

[Anonymous]

Why do you all think working in the corporate world is called a “rat race”? It's all about climbing the corporate ladder so you can get the cheese.

It's not the “here's a free handout, take my money” race.

I'm sure Tommy knows what I'm talking about too. 10 years in accounting without a CPA and “running his own department”.

Curious, how many “good accountants” have you thrown under the bus or should I say failed to adequately train in order to ensure your own job security?

[Radez]

I'm not particularly interested in getting into an internet fight about this, but for the benefit of any of the folks just starting out, I thought it worth at least advocating for an alternative theory of how the corporate world works.

In my own experience and in the experience of my mentors and role models, you can be successful by being authentically engaged with the company and with your team. If you work with integrity you can still achieve success. Social skills are important, simply because they are important any time you are participating in and contributing to a communal entity (which covers most activities in life). To that extent, there is a political element to your job, but I would push back against the idea that it is necessary to be ruthlessly Machiavellian, or that your success can only come at the expense of someone else's failure within the organization.

Basically, you can find success by working to make your team, or your organization successful, not necessarily yourself alone.

Again, I've been in industry exclusively and so the scope of my comments are necessarily limited to that experience alone.

[TommyTheCat]

what are you babbling on about Brick?

Your opinions are worth about as much as that mess my dog made in the back yard this morning.

Get back to work.

[Missy]

For anyone who may have concerns about termination, the rules etc. Its pretty easy. Almost all employment is considered “at will” meaning either party-the employer or the employee can end it at any time. Just like you're not obligated to give reasons why when you give your resignation, they're not obligated legally to give any reasons at all either for ending your employment. When an employer calls an attorney because they are seeking legal advise (because I've done it multiple times unfortunately) before dismissing an employee there's questions the attorney will ask before drafting or assisting to draft the termination letter. Not one of those questions has to do with what the employee has done “wrong” because the employer has no need to support that. The questions are to make sure the termination isn't discriminatory. If I decide I no longer want to see Bob's face every day as long as I don't fire a 60 year old then put a 23 year old in his position, or fire a woman to give a man her job, or fire a pregnant woman because she's out on disability……..I'm completely covered WHATEVER my reasons were, even if I saw a facebook post of theirs I didn't like.

The lawyer will tell the employer/hr to say as little as possible and get the employee out the door because every moment the conversation lingers, the emotions escalate on both sides and dealing with a possibly confrontational employee increases the risk the person delivering the bad news will start to lose control of the discussion and/or say something out of anger that COULD be considered discriminatory. Even if the employee asks WHY they're being let go, common wisdom is to not try to justify the dismissal. Just say it was a business decision and that's it.

Its not nearly as complicated as setting someone up, or keeping records of every mistake. Its all about not giving the appearance that race, gender, disability, age or sexual orientation. Its actually SCARIER than your boss framing you when you realize they don't have to put in the effort.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Anonymous]

@Tommy

I'm babbling about the topic. Others might just want to say their peace and comfort OP for losing his job. I on the other hand am actually discussing the topic, which is “employment/termination” related. If you cared to contribute to the discussion rather than nitpicking irrelevant points, maybe it would be enlightening for yourself and others.

As a potential future Partner of a CPA firm, I sure hope you understand the legal aspect of accounting and your responsibility in running the business. Are you even familiar with the contents of employment contracts? Do you know what is required to keep your insurance policies in good standing? Do you know how to manage and train employees (your biggest asset) to fulfil their roles satisfactorily and build a reputation rather than wasting your time hiring and firing people who you've failed to help succeed? Chances are not like most drone accountants who only pay attention to their computer screens and what's directly in front of them.

Partners at law firms generally understand the accounting aspect of their business. Accountants should also be familiar with the legal aspect of theirs.

@Radez

I agree that would be an ideal culture to be a part of. However, we can see how common it is with these types of posts being shared on this forum. Many people experience this where they have been getting great feedback and then out of nowhere they are let go from their job. This practice can have devastating impacts on people's lives especially if they have made financial obligations on confidence of their job security and also if they have a family. I think my posts will help others to at least pay attention to the real world of the accounting industry and what it takes to succeed at many firms rather than relying solely on technical ability and competence alone.

@Missy

I agree, employees can be hired and fired for anything. But many employers will document these things as support if needed. For example, if they fired an employee and the employee tries to collect unemployment benefits. If the employee is eligible and is granted unemployment, chances are the employer's insurance premiums will go up as well. Employees can only collect unemployment if they were terminated for reasons other than their own doings (layoff, position eliminated, etc.) but not for “poor performance”.

[Missy]

Unemployment rules are very state specific, and surprisingly at least in MA an employee can collect even if they were fired with cause unless it was something major like burning down the building or bringing drugs or a weapon into the workplace. Many employees who quit their jobs can collect too, as long as they had good reason (being harrassed or bullied). In the several states where I have employees, unemployment insurance rates only increase when an employer lays off a certain percentage of their workforce in a quarter. For a company of 50 people, firing 3 or 4 a year won't affect their rates, but firing ten will. An employer can always contest an unemployment claim but its exceptionally rare that they take someone out of management for 2-5 days to attend unemployment hearings, the success rate of contesting a claim is very low and rarely worth the energy expended.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Missy]

One more factor to consider, if offered a severance package or any pay aside from earned wages and vacation time, read the letter carefully. Signing it usually releases the employer from all future claims. Basically here's $1000, now go away forever. If you do sign and accept the payment because you are “giving up something of value” (your right to sue in the future) that part of your termination can NOT be factored into how long you have to wait for unemployment to begin, at least in MA.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Missy]

One last tip to the newly unemployed particularly if you carry the health insurance for your family. You DON'T need to sign up for COBRA right away if you're not positive you'll need it. You have 60 days in which it can be backdated to your first day without coverage. Sign the letter and put it somewhere safe that your family can find it. God forbid 2 weeks later you're in an accident and unconscious the signed letter can be faxed to the insurer who will backdate your coverage. If you get a job 2 weeks later and insurance coverage, no harm no foul for not spending that $$$$$ on COBRA coverage.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Anonymous]

Some employers document to cover unemployment claims and potential lawsuits. That's basically what auditors do, they audit financial statements and document as much as possible to mitigate liability. HR and office managers will do the same except they are auditing/documenting their employees on behalf of the employer to mitigate liability. Anyway, thanks for the information Missy, good to know.

[Josh]

@BrickellCPA I'm not sure where the rat race idea came from other than perhaps someone watching one? But people want control of their lives, time, money, etc. and often feel they are in a trap especially with other commuters traveling to and from work.

Have you ever played the “Cashflow” game by Rich Dad..? I was playing with some real estate investors, and I got a “mechanic”‘s card, so I was a blue-collar soul, much like I am in real-life. It was actually easier to get out of the “rat race” because being blue-collar isn't as big of an investment in one's self.

It's like my situation now. It wouldn't take much income to trade my job in for self-employment full-time because I don't make much. Still, anyone can start a business. I get tired of not finding the time to grow it more.. to move from the “S-E” quadrants to the “B-I” quadrants where the real “cheese” are.

But I got to focus on this exam, myself. Being a “specialist” is a step up from regular S-E; and, in my humble opinion, a “specialist role” that can make being a “B” and or “I” that much more successful.

[Son]

Swatee,

Please remember that people who try to find possible faults in your work performance based on your comments on this thread never worked a day with you in a professional setting. You may or may not be defensive when criticized; you may or may not take feedback well; you may or may not work harder than most. The only one who can make a final judgement on that is you.

You said you're committed, put in long hours and strive to constantly better yourself. Don't lose faith in what you feel is true. And don't let others diminish your self-worth, be it people on this forum or your ex boss.

AUD - passed
REG - passed
BEC - passed
FAR - passed

[Nima]

Chin up swatee! Move on! I believe in taking a stand for myself! Hope you enlightened the HR?

[Author]

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