[Anonymous]

Or have some sort of actual weekly limit in terms of hours. Not only in accounting/finance, but in so many fields employers simply hire one individual for two jobs. Does anyone else feel this way? It’s pathetic when I work until 1 am some nights for no overtime. I feel like I’m being used.

[nbad311]

IMO, the problem is public accounting. You are the money makers in such a firm, where as in private/industry, you're just a support role that they're paying for either way. The harder you work doesn't translate into more money for your firm in. I will literally never go into public accounting again, the whole business model/environment/management types contradicts so terribly against who I am as a person, it would make me sick to go back. I try to remain professional in my discussions about public accounting in the current day and never “bash my former employer”, but there's always blood in my mouth from biting my tongue. I got so desperate to leave, I applied to landscaping jobs and “wildlife technician” jobs (like, removing nests of screaming wasps from dark attics type of sh*t).

If you really are working 90 hour work weeks with some regularity, it might be time to look for something different. Like many have said, it's definitely not worth jeopardizing your health. And I agree with monk on the “There is something wrong with an industry where new hires go into a job knowing they are planning to leave after a few years.” I mean, how crazy is that. Again, it's all about the $$ for public firms and it's sad. I searched long and hard (and cried many a time too in the process) with a recruiter to get me a job outside of of public accounting and it finally worked out. I make more money now than I did at my public firm and I work 40-41 hours a week. And it requires no pest removal!!

REG - 65, 70, 80!
BEC - 35, 62, 79!
AUD - 73, 75!
FAR - 65, 73, 70, 75! DONE.

[nbad311]

IMO, the problem is public accounting. You are the money makers in such a firm, where as in private/industry, you're just a support role that they're paying for either way. The harder you work doesn't translate into more money for your firm in. I will literally never go into public accounting again, the whole business model/environment/management types contradicts so terribly against who I am as a person, it would make me sick to go back. I try to remain professional in my discussions about public accounting in the current day and never “bash my former employer”, but there's always blood in my mouth from biting my tongue. I got so desperate to leave, I applied to landscaping jobs and “wildlife technician” jobs (like, removing nests of screaming wasps from dark attics type of sh*t).

If you really are working 90 hour work weeks with some regularity, it might be time to look for something different. Like many have said, it's definitely not worth jeopardizing your health. And I agree with monk on the “There is something wrong with an industry where new hires go into a job knowing they are planning to leave after a few years.” I mean, how crazy is that. Again, it's all about the $$ for public firms and it's sad. I searched long and hard (and cried many a time too in the process) with a recruiter to get me a job outside of of public accounting and it finally worked out. I make more money now than I did at my public firm and I work 40-41 hours a week. And it requires no pest removal!!

REG - 65, 70, 80!
BEC - 35, 62, 79!
AUD - 73, 75!
FAR - 65, 73, 70, 75! DONE.

[san4596]

UHC2005 – I tend to think of random expressions, and was laughing while typing the monkey punch. It's like less sleep and more alcohol cause me to have random thoughts mush together.

Kricket is right though. My average for the year is 80%-85% billable time and $50K in the 77705 area is average pay. The partner in my office takes in about $200K/year. So, my decision to stay in public or go back into private will have to be made this year. However, I would stay in public if given the opportunity for partner. The 3 months of hell (60-70 hours a week) is worth $100K+ to me, and my family would be able to tolerate it.

CPA EXAM: DONE!!!!
Ethics Course: Passed
Application Mailed: 3/16/15
Professional Conduct Exam: 97
Certification Date: 4/2/15!!!

[san4596]

UHC2005 – I tend to think of random expressions, and was laughing while typing the monkey punch. It's like less sleep and more alcohol cause me to have random thoughts mush together.

Kricket is right though. My average for the year is 80%-85% billable time and $50K in the 77705 area is average pay. The partner in my office takes in about $200K/year. So, my decision to stay in public or go back into private will have to be made this year. However, I would stay in public if given the opportunity for partner. The 3 months of hell (60-70 hours a week) is worth $100K+ to me, and my family would be able to tolerate it.

CPA EXAM: DONE!!!!
Ethics Course: Passed
Application Mailed: 3/16/15
Professional Conduct Exam: 97
Certification Date: 4/2/15!!!

[StephAV]

I think part of the problem might be the way at least for the firm I worked at, the engagements are billed. The firm I worked at bid on the audit for the company I now work for and bid pretty much half the price of our previous audit firm (and a fraction of other firms bidding) mostly due to super low hours estimates. Then the staff are expected to stay on budget based on that. You end up either (eating your hours or going over budget and having to explain why).

Attorneys and other consultants we work with all bill their actual hours…

As far as accounting being an extremely lucrative career… That hasn't been my experience. Of my degreed friends I'm sure I make the least. One is a nurse working 3 12's, another is an engineer (male) started out making more by at least 10k -15k. I think I should've been a nurse, that 3 12's schedule sounds freaking awesome.

FAR - 7/13 - 72, 11/13- 74, 2/14- 82!!! Best score ever (for me)!!!
BEC - 1/14 - 75!!! Perfect score! First Pass! YAY!!!
AUD - 8/14 - 80!!!
REG - 5/14 - 72, 10/14 - 66, 1/15 - 78 - DONE FOREVER!!!
I did 5 of the UNA and CPAExcel classes to earn units.

[StephAV]

I think part of the problem might be the way at least for the firm I worked at, the engagements are billed. The firm I worked at bid on the audit for the company I now work for and bid pretty much half the price of our previous audit firm (and a fraction of other firms bidding) mostly due to super low hours estimates. Then the staff are expected to stay on budget based on that. You end up either (eating your hours or going over budget and having to explain why).

Attorneys and other consultants we work with all bill their actual hours…

As far as accounting being an extremely lucrative career… That hasn't been my experience. Of my degreed friends I'm sure I make the least. One is a nurse working 3 12's, another is an engineer (male) started out making more by at least 10k -15k. I think I should've been a nurse, that 3 12's schedule sounds freaking awesome.

FAR - 7/13 - 72, 11/13- 74, 2/14- 82!!! Best score ever (for me)!!!
BEC - 1/14 - 75!!! Perfect score! First Pass! YAY!!!
AUD - 8/14 - 80!!!
REG - 5/14 - 72, 10/14 - 66, 1/15 - 78 - DONE FOREVER!!!
I did 5 of the UNA and CPAExcel classes to earn units.

[Wolfchicken]

A couple of you mentioned that “right out of school you get paid more than most all other majors.” Please define what that means because I am entry level staff in public accounting and I make less than $40,000 and work long hours.

BEC - PASS
FAR - PASS
Audit - PASS
REG - PASS

[Wolfchicken]

A couple of you mentioned that “right out of school you get paid more than most all other majors.” Please define what that means because I am entry level staff in public accounting and I make less than $40,000 and work long hours.

BEC - PASS
FAR - PASS
Audit - PASS
REG - PASS

[Study Monk]

@Wolfchicken

The starting salary at larger firms is around 50k, which is a good living wage. Smaller firms may pay less, but in most cases they are attracting the students who were not top candidates so all is fair. This higher than average wage is made partly possible due to many student's choice to still pursue liberal art majors. My guess is engineering and computer science majors make at least the same without quite as long hours.

I spoke to an ancient wise man who sent me on a mushroom induced journey through an ancient forest to find the key to passing the CPA exam. A talking spider monkey told me to throw the last of my drinking water in the dirt to find what I was looking for. So I followed his instructions and the following message appeared in the soil:

"Do 5000 multiple choice questions for each section"

[Study Monk]

@Wolfchicken

The starting salary at larger firms is around 50k, which is a good living wage. Smaller firms may pay less, but in most cases they are attracting the students who were not top candidates so all is fair. This higher than average wage is made partly possible due to many student's choice to still pursue liberal art majors. My guess is engineering and computer science majors make at least the same without quite as long hours.

I spoke to an ancient wise man who sent me on a mushroom induced journey through an ancient forest to find the key to passing the CPA exam. A talking spider monkey told me to throw the last of my drinking water in the dirt to find what I was looking for. So I followed his instructions and the following message appeared in the soil:

"Do 5000 multiple choice questions for each section"

[Anonymous]

I shouldn't even be complaining. I'm making around 65 k per year.

[Anonymous]

I shouldn't even be complaining. I'm making around 65 k per year.

[Anonymous]

Starting salary in my market (large, but not NY, LA, Chicago) for big 4 is 56-58k. Some of my friends working at consulting firms like Accenture right out of college start at salaries around 75k. Other than them, I don't know anyone making more money than my accounting buddies.

[Anonymous]

Starting salary in my market (large, but not NY, LA, Chicago) for big 4 is 56-58k. Some of my friends working at consulting firms like Accenture right out of college start at salaries around 75k. Other than them, I don't know anyone making more money than my accounting buddies.

[Anonymous]

For me, a weekend of manual labor is the biggest thing that makes me question my career choice… Worked on the yard yesterday (not planting pretty flowers or anything like that – land was abandoned for 15 years till we moved in during the winter, so we're doing the harder side of yard work) and was hoping to spend the day painting the old concrete block foundation/retaining wall today. When I get these opportunities to work outside with my back instead of my brain, I actually like it. 😛 And I've done “real” manual labor, too, just not this weekend (I swear my family remodeled every house we stepped foot into – my dad and us kids did everything from the ground up).

However, on the whole salaried-vs-hourly. I'm hourly and wish I was salaried. I think the key is to have a salary that equates to a fair hourly wage, but if you can get something fair, then salaried is – in my opinion – so much simpler! If I'm in the middle of a project when 4:30 rolls around (we take 1/2 hour lunch), then I can't just stay another 15 minutes to finish it up, cause that would be OT; I have to leave and then in the morning try to remember WTH I was doing. If I have to go get blood work done in the morning, I can't just go to the lab at 8 and get to work whenever I'm finished; I have to request off PTO in whole-hour increments, so if the lab gets me out by 8:15, I still have to wait till 9 to go in to work…and if I get stuck below slow traffic on a normal morning and don't get to work till 8:10, I'm late and have an attendance-issue. Or if traffic is clear and I get to work at 7:50, I can't clock in or start working because it will cause OT. I can't wait to not have to clock in!! I know that I'll still have to work my butt off, but I'd rather be working to get my work done than watching the clock to meet the time-punches.

But to make salary work, you have to get a fair salary. That can be difficult to figure it it can be done. The same negotiations are required for hourly, too, though. I just figured it up and 90 hours/wk year-round at minimum wage is $43,355. So, if you're making at least $44k working 90 hour weeks year-round, then they could legally pay you the same amount if you were hourly. (And the 90 hr wks are just for a few months anyway.) 70 hour weeks year-round they only have to pay you $32,045 to meet the legal hourly rate. So, if you're working any fewer hours than that or making any more money than that, being hourly wouldn't help any. If you're making less than minimum wage per hour worked (averaged over the year), then you might want to find a labor lawyer. Otherwise, it's still just a negotiation issue. I don't make as much as I could since I'm a CPA etc., but I don't think that is because I'm hourly, and I think that I'm evidence that being hourly doesn't fix anything. What fixes things is negotiating better. I'm not the greatest negotiator. I hope to do better with the negotiating next time. But I promise that if they make me salaried (which I hope is in the future…), I will make sure that my hourly pay works out to what I have currently, or I will turn it down. I don't care if I get another $200 a month if I have to work an extra 40 hours/month to get that!

[Author]

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