[Anonymous]

Hey Everyone,

Wanted to get some insight/thoughts on something I’ve been mulling over for a while. I currently work in Public Big 4 and am almost done with the CPA. I’ve always had a desire and willingness to help people, and while public offers some of that with helping clients, I want to do something more. Don’t get me wrong, public is a very rewarding job, but I want to know that I made a tangible difference at the end of the day. With that being said, I’ve strongly considered looking into the FBI/CIA, not as a frauditor, but as an agent. They say that having your CPA is a quick way in to the FBI, as following money trails is a big way to catch criminals. Just wanted to know if anyone has jumped from public to law enforcement, or known of anyone that has done it, and what there experience has been.

Good luck on the score release fellow NINJAS!

[Doc_Shades]

Are there any FBI SAs on here? I'm just wondering what type of work you would be getting into where the CPA is relevant, and if that automatically equates to spending most of your time behind a desk as was mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm in the middle of the hiring process for a large metro PD, and if becoming a fed meant spending as much time behind a computer as I am now at a big4, I don't think I'd be interested.

Also, since it was in the title, has anyone even heard of the alphabet agencies being interested in the CPA for any type of job where you are oconus for greater than 50% of the time? Thanks.

[rugger246]

I have 10 + years working for the federal government in a criminal investigative capacity. Here is my 2 cents on this…

Before I started I use to think I wanted to do more with my life and thought this would be great way to use my degree and have some excitement at the same time. It has been very rewarding, and I enjoy what I do very much. However, I have come to learn that this job in some ways does not really help people the way you may be thinking.

I have learned that most fraud and white-collar crimes are historic in nature and people have long lost their money. Most times I have come to realize that most victims would just prefer to have their money back rather than see prosecution in the cases they were victimized. It some cases they become very disappointed in the final outcome. Many times I have found myself more excited by the outcome than the victims of these crimes…who in essence are the ultimate customers in such investigations. Thus, I tend to get satisfaction in doing the best job I can, just like anyone would for whatever job they do.

My point is…that being an accountant no matter what you do is a notable job. Accountants are the back bone to any capitalistic economy as they ensure the viable of company and in the public accounting world attest to the veracity of the financial statements for any public traded company. They provide services in many different aspects of finances and business. That is a very noble and necessary function in the economy we live.

The CPA who can provide a service to help protect clients from fraud occurring in the first place should be celebrated!!! It is much less costly to prevent these crimes from occurring than to deal with the costs (i.e. emotional, financial, physical) in the aftermath.

Having and accounting degree and CPA will definitely make you competitive with any law enforcement agency. Please note that the FBI has a large jurisdiction. Just because you are a CPA does not necessarily mean you will be assigned to work fraud cases…so keep that in mind. Additionally, in Special Agent positions there are mobility issues which typically will allow the agency to move you depending on the needs of that organization. Just some things to consider.

There is such a vast array of Special Agent positions outside the big names: FBI, DEA, and IRS. Please also note that the CIA is not a law enforcement agency. Most all federal departments have Inspector Generals (IG) that hire both auditors and investigators to prevent and detect fraud, waste, and abuse. Google…HUD, HHS, SSA, OIG's to name a few.

Overall…I love my job. I spend a majority of my time behind a desk as most fraud investigations are document intensive. Of course, there are interviews that need done and meetings with prosecutors. The law enforcement aspect (i.e. search warrants, arrests, trials) are only a small percentage of the job..so you will not be “running and gunning” everyday when it comes to investigating white-collar crime no matter what law enforcement agency you work for.

Hope this helps…and good luck!!!

AUD - Passed
BEC - Passed
FAR - Passed (Perfect Score of 75 to finish it off)
REG - Passed

[rugger246]

@ Doc-Shades

Outside the CONUS, Google the following:

US Diplomatic Security Service (State Dept.)

USAID

Military Criminal Investigative Services (DCIS, Army-CID, AFOSI, NCIS)

AUD - Passed
BEC - Passed
FAR - Passed (Perfect Score of 75 to finish it off)
REG - Passed

[M.O.D.]

Why don't these federal agencies use CPA firms like everyone else? Why not contract out these investigative services to specialist firms?

I know of a CPA firm that specializes in fraud investigation. A city hired it to investigate its managers and to provide evidence for prosecutors.

I don't see the point of training with a gun when you need a skilled accountant. Do they train the SWAT team in accounting? I don't think so.

Sound like govt inefficiency.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[Internally_Combusted]

I took a Forensic Auditing class in my Masters that was taught by a current active Special Agent in White Collar crimes. For one of our classes he discussed nothing but the FBI recruiting process and all of the tips and tricks. The FBI employs a lot of CPAs. He said that in 2012, I think, that every CPA that applied made it past the written exam. Some tips for recruiting. You shouldn't apply at an office you want to be stationed at in the next 10 years. It is a policy that you will not be assigned at the office at which you applied. The trick is to drive to the next closest office and apply there. When you go through the academy you obviously want to be in the top of your class as it gives you a much better opportunity to be stationed where you want. The physical requirements are not that bad unless you are not active at all but they will test you multiple times throughout the recruitment process to make sure you don't just train up to complete it the first time and then sit on your ass. Now I will get into what happens when you make it.

Just because you have a CPA does not mean you will work in white collar crimes. My teacher had his law degree. He started out as a bomb technician and did tours in the middle east. He then switch to their tactical team (similar to SWAT) for a few years. Then he did a stint in anti-terrorism before making the move to white collar crimes. It sounds very interesting but he said if you are not willing to move where ever they want you then you might as well not even sign up. Pay isn't great but it isn't bad either. You start at ~$48k for the first year while you are still considered in training. Then you jump to around ~$60k. This is obviously adjusted for cost of living but that is the base. After about 10 years in you will likely breach 6 figures. There is a mandatory retirement at age 57 which is why you cannot be older than 37 to join. You need to still have 20 years of service in you so that you can be eligible for your pension. When you retire there are generally really good opportunities to make bank as a contractor for private companies who need access to your security clearances that cannot be duplicated by a civilian.

I remember him missing a class because he had to fly out to Boston after the bombing at the marathon. While the profession definitely does sound interesting it also has its draw backs. One I didn't think about was the fact that apparently a lot of people do not trust or like you once they know you are an FBI agent. The job is also not as glamorous as you would think. He said it is not uncommon for someone in white collar to go their entire career without working a single high profile case. You might never see anything more interesting than a bookkeeper that embezzled ~$800k over 10 years from their employer and committed wire and mail fraud in the process making it a federal crime.

If this career does interest you though, a CPA is one of the easiest ways to get in along with an engineering or law degree. He also mentioned that they prefer people with 2 to 3 years of public experience that have already established a family. Its a stability thing. He said most candidates are closer to 30 and that the youngest he has seen was 24.

[wr8280]

Internally combust ed thanks for sharing that. It's pretty awesome. It seems like a very fulfilling career.

FAR- 82
REG- 93
AUD- 89
BEC- 88

You are smarter, more focused, and more brilliant than you give yourself credit for. Believe in yourself and truly know in your heart that you can do it.

[rugger246]

@ M.O.D –

I personally, have worked a couple of cases where outside assistance was requested from a forensic services accounting firm. They did add some value to the investigation, but only in the aspects for which they had a sense of expertise.

So even though document review and analysis are important aspect of a fraud case and an outside firm maybe able to help with that, there are other investigative techniques taking place in a criminal investigation. For example, background checks on subjects and others requiring access to government databases is necessary, perhaps surveillance needs done, couple that with interviews of individuals perhaps in involved in a criminal element with a sense of danger…you see where this is going. Somethings are best left for law-enforcement others for accountants.

Additionally, to investigate and enforce the law requires “sworn” law enforcement in order to prepare search warrants and make arrests. That is far outside the scope of a CPA at a accounting firm.

I guess that is why you have many law enforcement agencies want to hire CPAs. They provide some much needed knowledge and critical skills and can then be trained in the necessary law enforcement aspects.

AUD - Passed
BEC - Passed
FAR - Passed (Perfect Score of 75 to finish it off)
REG - Passed

[M.O.D.]

@ rugger

I agree that law enforcement and police work is a separate field from the accounting and business analysis, each with its own majors, textbooks, etc. And yes, someone who knows both would be highly valued. But from the discussion on this thread, such a govt agent is not currently at 50/50 but more like 80/20 in favor of police-related work, with the analytical skills applied to general dept needs first, and specialized business analysis second.

This is fully in line with the priorities of the agency, as they are a police force, not a CPA firm. There is nothing wrong with this approach, its just that the nature of specialization in accounting would favor someone interested in 80% accounting or fraud work, to the detriment of the other interests.

What I am saying is that the people who tend to specialize or who want to specialize in a business related field are not likely to work for such a govt agency.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[Anonymous]

very few times do I read a comment posted by M.O.D. and not face palm.

[Author]

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