"Job-hopping" in the world of accounting - Page 2

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  • #560272
    fuzyfro89
    Participant

    GSUCPA:

    Valid points; however, hiring at the professional level is different than hiring in a retail setting (no offense). If you were such a good manager and Best Buy was such a good place to work, then why did you have people leave within 1 yr? I'm assuming they didn't leave for a pay cut. Most people will stay as long as it's their best option. It's the employer's job to keep people by offering them competitive compensation and growth opportunities, not the employee's job to stay put when they're losing out.

    I do empathize with your position. If I were an employer, I would want people to stay with me; however, it's my responsibility to be the best opportunity for them (and I would have to do this in order to hire the best talent).

    Some companies (not all) have gotten very complacent in recent years due to having less positions than applicants. The economy is improving, and moreover due to cutbacks in recent years, there is a shortage of people with certain key skills/experiences.

    In your example, would you have given any of the employees who left within 1 yr a raise/promotion if you knew they had better opportunities elsewhere?

    How many letters:

    I will say that the first 12-18 months is the steepest part of the learning curve. In most jobs, once you've been through 2-3 cycles (tax seasons, quarter close, YE close, etc) you've seen the majority (read: 2/3) of the situations. The NEXT 1-2 years after your first 2 years will be much flatter in terms of the speed of learning and variety of experience.

    Personally, I would take a slightly lower compensation package if I had better growth/learning/experience opportunities. That is what's important to me, but we all have our own motivations. A smart manager/employer will recognize what is important to an employee/interviewee and provide that experience to them… or, if they are unwilling, then to let them find something better.

    #560273

    Very well said fuzzy. What I'm referring to though is somebody who can come in, already very experienced and can apply that experience. I completely get what you are saying in that it's different everywhere but there are many people in Finance (which is my area of expertise) who can come on and make an impact in 3 months or less.

    In Finance, while the annual budget is a large part of the job and you have to do it well that's not where we present value; at least not those of us who are good. Maybe it's my consulting background but if I'm looking at two people all else equal – one has hopped (successfully) and one has been with the same company for four years, I'm going to take the hopper because I know that candidate is able to handle change, can learn quick, pick up new systems and then slide right in. The other guy not so much. If and when they leave I'll go find another one, once again with minimal pain and suffering to my department. The leader with the most talent wins, and as those of you who are, or are growing into, leadership roles; if you ignore talent because of hopping, even better for me but you are doing yourselves a disservice.

    MBA,CMA,CPA, CFF?, ABV?

    #560274

    …I do realize the title of this thread is “in the world of accounting” so maybe my Finance perspective is a little different. I'll still take those talented job hopper Senior Accountants and give them an interesting job:)

    MBA,CMA,CPA, CFF?, ABV?

    #560275
    fuzyfro89
    Participant

    “The leader with the most talent wins, and as those of you who are, or are growing into, leadership roles; if you ignore talent because of hopping, even better for me but you are doing yourselves a disservice.”

    Point taken. I suppose when you want to hire the best, then you also have to understand that the reason they are highly qualified is because of their ability to adapt, learn quickly, and make an impact.

    I suppose part of the challenge is keeping those people in one place since the “star” performers might jump since someone else will also recognize their star status.

    I think employer's who complain about not being able to retain employees need to take a hard look at themselves. I apologize for the crude analogy, but it's like a guy who's terrible in bed complaining when his gf leaves him for a more considerate lover. If you want employees (or your gf) to stick around, you've got to be their best option (in more ways than just being good in the sack). /crude analogy end

    To your point, I'd also prefer to have a rockstar join my team, even if I had a feeling they would be gone in 12-18 months. I'll take their contribution and be happy rather than just find someone to keep seats warm.

    As far as the field of acct vs finance, I don't really think it's all that different. You want an accounting manager who's seen close under SAP, Hyperion, and maybe in 2 industries vs someone who just saw 1 ERP system and 1 industry.

    Change is good: Don't be a complainypants.

    Regardless, my original point from my first post still stands. Being a job hopper is fine, as long as you have a valid reason for why you moved around AND you have good experience(s) to show for it.

    #560276

    And I agree 10000000% on companies that want their rock stars to stick around: treat their people better. I also agree that companies have gotten complacent over the last 6 years…look what's happened to 401Ks…salaries…flex time capability….and desire to take on headcount when their people are overworked. Your post hit just about every solid point and could be a how – to on employee retention. Well written

    MBA,CMA,CPA, CFF?, ABV?

    #560277
    mla1169
    Participant

    My perspective is strictly from industry but I don't care to have a rock star for 12-18 months. Let him or her go rock elsewhere. Most industry accounting departments run VERY lean, and replacing any position from a clerk to a manager causes excess work and stress on the rest of the department. Not worth it to me to have 5-6 unhappy exhausted employees because my rock star moved on after 12 months. And as the hiring manager I'm RARELY in the position to make the types of decisions that retain good employees so I'm shooting for the path of least resistance to myself and my staff by hiring someone I won't have to replace in 12 months.

    FAR- 77
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    Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

    #560278
    fuzyfro89
    Participant

    Mla:

    You make a good case about why excellence has no place in accounting. Unfortunately, even today, accountants are still seen as a ‘cost center' and not a value driver for most (not all) companies.

    It seems the accounting dept always gets the shaft when it comes to trying to get more budget flexibility and hiring.

    It's why I gave up on a career in accounting. Even now when I work on projects with people under the Controller's group, I feel sorry for the crap they have to deal with.

    Again, to my earlier point, companies have been complacent and have become accustomed to a VERY VERY LEAN accounting budget… too lean, IMO.

    I guess we'll see how it pans out going forward. Depending on the geography and their bargaining power, it may continue, but accounting staff will have to se better compensation going forward. Not sure if this will take 2 years or 10, though…

    #560279
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    What are people's thoughts about leaving a regional firm for a big 4 firm after working only about ~9 months in the audit side? How would that look? Pretty much same pay and same location.

    #560280
    jaredo155
    Member

    Full disclosure I am from generation Y, I have had 4 jobs since 2007, and I currently work in corporate tax. I agree with both mla and fuzy about the fact that almost all accounting departments I have encountered (I have worked in corp tax, corp accting, and govt accting) are treated as cost centers only. On the flip side finance and tax departments often times get a little more respect as value drivers, so I think the expectations of a typical employee are very different.

    My point is I think the conversation about how job hopping is viewed is going to be very relative based on the area you are in, the industry you are in, the sector you are in, and the specific supervisor you are applying to work for. A few generalizations I have observed based on my experiences are:

    1. anything over 2 years most people won't consider job hopping

    2. having the same title for more than 3 to 4 years (varies by industry), unless it is a mngt level role, will start to make you look like a poor performer

    3. staying at the same company in the same department for 10+ years will have just as detrimental effect on peoples perception of you as job hopping will.

    The second and third points are precisely why most people I know who are my age or younger, will almost never keep the same job for more than 3 or 4 years. There are exceptions to this where they work for a great organization which goes out of it's way to nurture their growth as a professional, gives them great benefits and compensation, and offers them paths to leadership roles.

    I have seen an equal number of resumes thrown out because the individual has been in the same role for too long (questions about their potential), or in the same department at the same company too long (how adaptive are they to a completely new environment), as I ever have because someone only stayed at one job for a year and another job for 18 months. Yeah training someone every 12 to 18 months is a pain and can be costly, but a good manager should be able to have enough impact to keep someone around for at least 2 to 3 years. You may not be able to offer someone raises or promotions, but you can impact how much they are learning, what their day to day work environment is like, and the flexibility they have. If as a manager you can't at least affect those things, then you might want to think about whether you really want to work for that organization.

    AUD - 2/2013 - Passed!
    BEC - 5/2013 - Passed!
    FAR - 8/2013 - Passed!
    REG - 11/2013 - Passed!
    "Do or do not, there is no try." - Yoda

    #560281
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Personally, I don't see job hopping as necessarily being negative. I work hard to further my knowledge and if my current job isn't going to allow me to grow in my career, I'm going to find one that can. If companies want to keep talented employees around, then allow them to learn and grow rather than being stagnant.

    #560282
    Mayo
    Participant

    For me it matters more the longer the trend is. Granted, I'm im public and have never made a hiring decision myself. However, I'm pretty proactive in my career path and I've given considerable thought to the issue.

    That being said, the perception tends to depend on the industry, place in your career, and the types of companies you're hopping to.

    For example, hopping from a staff to a senior position in a high growth industry is not a bog deal to me. Neither is going from a smaller company to a larger company in the same role. In the same vein, moving industries is ok if done once. More than once makes you look erratic and indecisive.

    But seeing three or more one year or one and a half year stints without a great reason seems shady to me. It gives the appearance that either 1.) you're never happy where you're at or 2.) There is something off about your work or personality which keeps you at a place for long or 3.) You jist make bad decisions in your career and cannot effectively gauge if a company and position is right for you.

    There are some situations where it's expected: video game companies are very high risk and their failures typically have nothing to do with the quality of accounting. So seeing three or four hops from dying companies might be ok. Even there, enough hops and your judgment comes into question.

    So yah, my rule is seeing 3 or more short term hops in a row as being a bad thing. More depending on circumstance. Less if it's the same role you're hopping to (3 jobs as a Staff Acct in the last three or four years tells me something is wrong).

    Mayo, BBA, Macc

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