[Anonymous]

Curious what is the best way to build a relationship with the IT guys at work? They are mostly behind the scenes, but their responsibilities are highly valuable to any organization and they generally have the inside scoop on many of the employees. For example, they provide network security clearance including setting up usernames and passwords to databases and software, monitor web traffic, emails, and keyloggers, etc.

How important would you say it is to develop a relationship with them or at least be knowledgeable about IT and IT security in the workplace? (i.e. plugging your phone into a work computer to charge, not locking your work computer while you are away on a break, leaving your phone unattended and vulnerable to sabotage, etc.)

What are your thoughts and experience with this? Do you have any tips or word of advice?

[Anonymous]

It's not that I am complaining, I am trying to understand why there is such a difference in experience for some people. At the end of the day it can be several different factors so it's tough to pinpoint if there is a common reason or not, or if it is a part of training or not. I have scoured the internet and other resources regarding management techniques and building an effective office culture, etc. and have found some relevant information, but I am not completely satisfied with it yet.

I don't want to devalue accountants at the Big 4, would just like to understand the environment a bit more and what it takes to excel there. I have never worked in groups of larger than 6-7 people. From what I understand Big 4 engagements can easily have over 20 accountants in the same conference room working on an engagement.

I have no idea how that bears on my ability to be a leader and do my job well, but many employers ask questions during interviews regarding how many people have you worked in teams with and how many people did you oversee? What difference does it make if I can perform the work well and effectively deal with Management and Board members and have trained others in the past?

Also how many people out of those 20 are certified CPAs? I think if you are certified that is really all that matters and as long as you don't embarrass yourself in front of the client and can survive long hours, I am not seeing much else to it. Correct me if I'm wrong?

[Anonymous]

Also I would think it would be a big concern if you are at a client and logged into their network from your work laptop. It could be possible if your computers are not properly monitored shut off or closed while at the client, they (or even a competitive co-worker) can install spyware or sabotage your files and information. I would think IT security is huge these days and that accountants are made more aware of potential security risks, so it's interesting to hear that it is not given much attention at Big 4.

[ruggercpa2b]

How many people you have managed on a job gives an employer a sense of how well you could do running a team. If they need someone in a supervisory role if you have never supervised people then it would matter. Like mla said when you are over people in a team you have to be in charge of the budget, you have to give feedback to those individuals. if you do performance reviews then you need to remember what each person did and give meaningful feedback. It would be hard to be in a leadership role when you have never actually led anyone. Just because you perform your job well does not make you a good manager. There is so much more to being a manager than just doing your job well. I have had some of the smartest managers but have the shittieest managers I have ever worked for because they dont know how to effectively manage people.

Being a CPA in a room of 20 accountants means nothing if you do not have the experience. We had a handful of staff that started with the firm that had already passed the exams but still had to be taught how to do an audit. We had to teach them the firm's audit methodology, teach them about GAAP and GAAS. Yeah some had some book knowledge but if you have never done the work and are fresh out school saying you passed the CPA means nothing if you cant complete the work that is required of you. And with that comes experience.

And usually the jobs with at least 20 people on them are the bigger clients with more complex accounting.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[ruggercpa2b]

Also your assumption that people on a client network could have their work sabotaged is bizarre. You can get hacked on your firm's network. And how does being logged on to a network have to do with locking my computer. They can easily get in the computer if its locked if they hack into it. We have spyware on our computers we get emails all the time about not opening emails that look suspicious. It is being monitored all the time.

IT security is so much more than just logging off your computer. And if you think logging off is what IT security is then you are looking at it all wrong.

If you are working with competitive coworkers that are that vindictive then maybe its time to find another workplace. I should be able to trust people I work with because I leave my purse in the room with them when I go talk to the client. Now that is just paranoia that is out of left field.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Anonymous]

Okay thanks, these are mostly things I am familiar with and do not have much concern considering I do have experience. It really sounds like Big 4 would be a walk in the park compared to the companies I've worked for in the past. The only real difference it seems would be longer hours and more people. However, I would definitely consider going in as a Senior or Supervisor level first to become more acquainted with the work environment (or depending on the location I might consider applying straight for Manager).

As for logging onto their network, I would be concerned with them having the ability to access your computer remotely for example. They could have keyloggers monitoring every input into your computer and obtain passwords or confidential information related to the engagement this way. Of course your computer will have encryption and firewalls to prevent this from happening, but I am not 100% confident on this subject matter which is why my original question was IT related.

I absolutely appreciate this discussion though. It gives great perspective on what to expect at the larger firms. Feel free to add any other bits of advice if you'd like to add anything else. Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

My only other concern outside of IT would be internal controls. How much training do Big 4 accountants get with internal controls and how familiar do they have to be with controls at the associate, senior, and manager levels? For example, I had a client in the construction industry that had a large warehouse. When we visited on site, there was a large boat that they stored there and it was not an asset of the company or anywhere on the books, however it was located in the warehouse of the client. This prompted us to perform additional procedures on existence of fixed assets, etc in order to determine if they were being properly recorded.

Of course there are the checklists and I'm sure it varies, but at what level would you say most Big 4 accountants know what to ask and look for outside of the checklists? When do they become comfortable not solely relying on prior year workpapers and extensively conducting tests of controls on their own for newer clients? I'd imagine it is not very common considering Big 4 has long standing relationships with their clients so these tests are probably not common to perform or for newer accountants to be familiar with.

[ruggercpa2b]

Depending on what offices you are applying to and the type of clients and the need you may not necessarily go in as manager especially coming from a small firm. They might start you as a senior bu very rarely do they do that if you are not too familiar with the firm's audit methodology. I had friends that would come in one year below a senior and then get promoted the next year depending on their performance. And some people came in at senior level only for management to realize they clearly were not senior material. They would either get let go or they would just be held back for a few years.

If you cannot trust your client to be able to use their wifi then you do not need to have that client as a client. Once again it sounds like you have had some shady experiences and trusting your clients may not be something you are accustomed to.

Nothing is confidential to the client if you are auditing them if it pertains to them. So it really would be a waste of time for them to have keyloggers tracking what you are typing. Every piece of information we use for the audit we have obtained from the client. Us auditors sometimes have to sign NDAs to not disclose some of the sensitive information we learn when we are at a client.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[ruggercpa2b]

Anyone that works as an auditor knows about professional skepticism. Audit is audit it is no different at a small firm than it is at Big 4. if you see something that doesn't seem right you ask questions.

We do control walkthroughs all the time. Why would Big 4 be exempt from testing controls? If its a newer client you are not going to have PY so you are going to have to figure it out as you do the audit.

Anyway it seems like a lot of what you are asking is all based off assumptions of what you think Big 4 auditors do compared to small firms.

We have had to build an audit program for a new client in a new industry. Its all the same. We learn about the industry, and we learn about our client and then audit away.

Anyway back to work for me. If I had not seen you on the forum a few times I would start to think you were trolling. Some of the assumptions you have are a little out there for someone who has 6 years of public accounting experience.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Anonymous]

“Nothing is confidential to the client if you are auditing them if it pertains to them. So it really would be a waste of time for them to have keyloggers tracking what you are typing.”

I disagree with that considering I've worked on an engagement of a large national health care provider where the payroll manager embezzled several millions of dollars to a fictitious external payroll company. Essentially what he was doing was lapping funds from the payroll account and also earned income by charging his employer a fee for the services of his fictitious payroll company.

Also it would be possible for the client to learn about the materiality threshold which can also affect the audit. They could destroy invoices or adjust the recording of a transaction on the books to conceal fraud. I think there are several areas for concern if a client had access to your computer, audit methodology, and workpapers.

[Anonymous]

“Anyway back to work for me. If I had not seen you on the forum a few times I would start to think you were trolling. Some of the assumptions you have are a little out there for someone who has 6 years of public accounting experience.”

I don't think you have the level of experience you think you do. Your responses overall have been fairly generic yet I still give you credit for responding.

My questions are simply to get a better understanding of the work environment at larger firms. And my conclusion based on this discussion is that there really is not much to be concerned about for me personally considering the nature and extent of experience I've received at past firms.

Thanks for the perspective though, enjoy your day.

[ruggercpa2b]

But the client does not have access to our computers, audit workpapers.

Your assumption that they are going to go through all those lengths to hire someone to log into our computers just to get info on materiality makes no sense. Yeah you may have had a payroll manager that was embezzling funds but you guys as auditors did not keep that as a secret from your client. Your client as in who hired you to perform the audit. The payroll manager may not have known but I bet your manager or partner over your audit told your client's management what you all had uncovered. So no, nothing is confidential to your client.

You are just reaching and thinking of all these scenarios. So you are saying if the client walks in the audit room everyone you work with shuts their computers and puts away any notes they have jotted down? Because someone could easily walk in the audit room and look over your shoulder.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Missy]

Brickell whats your goal? Started out as wanting to build a relationship with IT, to being a manager at Big 4, to maybe a senior or supervisor at big four. Also are you actually seeking input or just hoping someone will validate what you think you know?

Sometimes we don't WANT input, just reassurance. If thats really what you're looking for thats fine (but stop asking for thoughts), great hope your 6 years experience lands you exactly where you hope to be.

If you actually want info that is useful to you, happy to help. But for example asking questions like

What difference does it make if I can perform the work well and effectively deal with Management and Board members and have trained others in the past?

shows you're not quite there yet. Theres so much more to managing others than knowing what they're supposed to do. Trust me I was 20 years into my career before I managed another person, and you have no idea. Like how will you react when one of your direct reports disagrees with or questions you? In front of another direct report or worse, in front of a client? What would you do if you thought you smelled alcohol on a direct report? How would you tell a direct report that they're not making any improvement despite attempts to retrain them? (Those are rhetorical questions by the way, please don't answer them, its not even relevant).

And asking questions like what to do if someone tries to pressure you to drink? I mean, come on. If your work environment is so terrifying with others coming back with black eyes or peer pressure at cocktail parties just work on finding a STABLE work environment first without worrying where on the corporate ladder it lands you. You're not going to go from working in a mafia-like small firm to being a manager at a big 4, trust me if your current firm is as shady as you say other firms know already and will hold your experience in lower esteem than someone coming out of a more honorable firm.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Anonymous]

@rugger – No I would be concerned with a coworker screwing with my workpapers or anything on my computer if I left it open.

If as a team we left our computers opened and went to lunch, I would be concerned that the payroll manager in my example above could walk in and get the inside scoop that we were onto him and attempt to further conceal his actions or who knows what.

Of course it is all speculation, but it sounds like maybe your experience has overall been a walk in the park and not really auditing. If these bigger companies all have proper controls in place, the risk is going to be low so I'd imagine the audit work is highly repetitive and not very challenging unless there is more complex accounting/calculations/estimates involved, which again, is not really auditing.

[Anonymous]

@mla – My questions are to better understand how to excel at a larger firm. I am asking these questions because I am familiar that smaller firms operate differently and larger firms are much more standardized and streamlined so I am asking these types of questions to get perspective.

Many people leave Big 4 after their first 2-3 years. I plan on going in for my year 6-7. Expectations will be a bit different and I wouldn't want to bite off more than I can chew.

[ruggercpa2b]

My experience has been great in terms of the environments that I have worked in compared to the type of environments you have said you worked in. Just because I have worked in great environments does not make the work I did as a walk in the park. I worked in external audit for Big 4 and you think its not auditing? Then why would you want to switch to a Big 4 or potentially a bigger firm?

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Author]

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