[Anonymous]

Curious what is the best way to build a relationship with the IT guys at work? They are mostly behind the scenes, but their responsibilities are highly valuable to any organization and they generally have the inside scoop on many of the employees. For example, they provide network security clearance including setting up usernames and passwords to databases and software, monitor web traffic, emails, and keyloggers, etc.

How important would you say it is to develop a relationship with them or at least be knowledgeable about IT and IT security in the workplace? (i.e. plugging your phone into a work computer to charge, not locking your work computer while you are away on a break, leaving your phone unattended and vulnerable to sabotage, etc.)

What are your thoughts and experience with this? Do you have any tips or word of advice?

[ruggercpa2b]

My first question to you would be what are your intentions on building a relationship with them. Do you just want the inside scoop on what is going on or you want to build some form of a working relationship? If they are people you do not normally interact with for your job its going to be hard to just try and be buddy buddy with them.

I work in internal audit and some of the reviews we do also involve working with IT. If I see them in the hallway I may say hello depending on how much time I interacted with them on the audit I was working on. Some I see all the time and work with all the time so I will chat with them about family if they are the chatty type. You have to learn to be able to read people. Some people are just business and some are open to a little chit chat. Most IT people are kind of introverts.

If you are just looking to make friends to get the inside gossip then I would advise against it. Most IT security requirements that you need to know about your organization there should be a policy out there. I know we had a policy on security that we reviewed as new hires. Everyone knew to lock your computer and to keep your computer in the trunk of your car instead of in plain site. I do not see myself trying to build a relationship over locking my computer, but then again that is just me.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Anonymous]

Thanks @ruggercpa2b for the quick response.

The reason I ask is because if you end up leaving a larger firm to work for a smaller firm, many times the smaller firm will expect you to be familiar with the IT environment as well. It would be a major advantage to learn about the IT side of running an accounting firm if you want to secure Senior Manager or Partner role at a smaller firm.

At larger firms, you have an entire IT department that is responsible for this, but a smaller firm it may only be 1 or 2 people responsible for IT, so as an accountant it could be a major advantage in terms of promotion and job security.

So I understand some guys might be more friendly and open to small talk, but is there a formal relationship where say if an accountant sees an employee not taking care of their passwords and equipment properly, they can report it to the IT guys since they are responsible for overseeing the IT security? Would it benefit them in any way if the accountant were their “eyes and ears” on the field per se? Or does there happen to be any type of unspoken relationship that only top tier accountants are familiar with in order to get ahead?

Interested in your feedback.

[ruggercpa2b]

I do not think as an accountant knowing the ins and outs of what happens on the backend in IT really screams job security. Being knowledgeable of what your do and becoming a subject matter expect in something I think to me would say job security. Small firms I am sure outsource the more technical type of work that is required. In terms of assigning and deactivating access that would not be something that if you knew would ensure your job was secure because I am sure there is a process documented somewhere or the office admin knows how to assign access. Small firms usually whoever was the last person to start will help the new person figure out what access they need if everyone else cant remember.

Being the person that runs and tells on others that they walked away without locking their computer would not make you look favorable. You would literally just be a tattler. I am guilty of walking to the bathroom real quick and leaving my laptop unlocked. There are people I work with that I know not to do that because they will change the background of your computer.

At Deloitte IT did random walkthroughs and scolded you if you left your computer unlocked. When you are in the field working you do not have time to checking who is leaving their computer unlocked. If you are in a tiny conference room that you cant really secure your computer we just made sure if no one is in the room we locked the door. If someone was in the room they we were comfortable walking off to talk to a client about something.

If my supervisor is not getting on me about it, the last thing I want is for someone else at my level trying to be a stickler about me locking my computer.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Anonymous]

Okay thank you. Maybe Florida is a bit different due to it being an “at-will employment” state. But I have worked at firms and had clients where they literally make the employees feel like every day could be their last. It's happened not only to myself but I've seen employers do this to several employees and the entire office. They are required to put on a face to the public as if everyone enjoys their jobs, but in reality they have been pressured to do certain things and behave a certain way otherwise they'd lose their job.

From what I read on this forum, many people have it easy, so I am trying to pinpoint exactly why I and others have different experiences. In these environments, you don't want to leave your computer accessible to co-workers in fear they might sabotage your work.

And I've had employers at highly reputable firms literally say “We aren't going to baby you” when first starting or bringing on new hires. So it's interesting how some people have it easy at work and others might have a hard time. It's not a matter of just switching firms or office location either. Big or small, it happens everywhere. Reading reviews on glassdoor.com I can see many people experience the same thing.

[Missy]

I've been in the workforce a long long long time (since before some of you were born) and can assure you that you are overthinking nuances. Stuff like drinking at happy hour or trying to be the eyes and ears of the IT department (which makes you unpopular with your peers AND the IT department, unless its people you directly supervise just don't). Not what employers even remotely care about so you're spinning your wheels.

Here's the deal, especially in an at will state, you can be fired for wearing a blue shirt to work if your boss decides one morning she hates the color blue. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING IN THE WORLD, absolutely gives job security if you work for someone else.

That said, the more valuable you are overall to a company, the more incentive they have to keep you around. So its always good to learn as much as you can about everything you can. There is no part of my job description that involves quoting equipment to customers, but I learned how and I do it almost every day because I want to get as close as possible to my employer feeling like they couldn't function without me. Of course thats not true for anyone but perception is everything.

So your approach to this is from the wrong direction. Stop focusing solely on the interpersonal stuff, it comes on its own. For whatever job you have the key to security is making the employer sense the value they get for what they pay you, nothing more or less really. As you're establishing your value to the company you work for, the professional relationships will sort themselves. For example because I don't back down from quoting a customer when their salesperson is on vacation I've built a nice relationship with manufacturing and engineering that I likely otherwise wouldn't have established if I stuck to finance and HR. But I didn't contrive those relationships, they were a side effect of just being a customer focused team player.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[ruggercpa2b]

I think what you are talking about is more about the people you work with and report to. I had a boss who told me the same exact thing about not hand holding and not to expect to be trained on everything. She told me that if I thought every job came with training I was wrong. Sometimes you have to figure things out on your own. I hated her but it helped me to just figure things out on my own.

I have had some terrible work places but its really been about the people. Accounting firms are somewhat the same. You can work with a senior or a manager who love to teach and will take time out to explain things to you. And then you have some that will tell you to figure it out and get annoyed if you ask questions. I just learned to adapt and just go with the flow based on who I worked with. If i found myself spinning my wheels I would ask questions but I always made sure that I could tell them what I had already done on my own and the research I had already done. If I worked with great people I made sure I kept in touch when we were on different jobs so I could ask them questions if I was stumped. I worked in TN and had a friend that worked in Dallas. I would ask him questions all the time and his manager was much nicer so he helped me out a lot.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Missy]

also regarding the perception that others have it “easy” while some struggle there is a list of issues that cause this.

First, too many people don't ask the right questions in an interview, or even know what they're looking for except “a job”. I realize in some job markets you have to take anything that comes your way but don't be surprised if you are not a good fit or vice versa. When was the last time you asked in an interview why the position was open or how many people held that position in the last 5 years? It should be clear to both parties by the time an offer is extended whether its a good match or not.

Second, absolutely ANYTHING can be miserable if you allow it to be. Sure there's probably a lot at my job to be unhappy with, but I'm not unhappy at all. The good outweighs the bad and I'm not going to waste energy dwelling on who doesn't lock their computer or what Dave thought last night when I was drinking diet coke. I know my stuff, I demonstrate that every day. If its not good enough for someone oh well.

Finally growth and opportunities have to be chased, they don't look for you. If you've got downtime find some need that nobody realizes exists and fill it. My company had an AWFUL system of reporting sales to the sales guys, I started asking them what they NEED reporting wise to help them achieve their targets. I compiled a list, created a report in excel that was more useful to them, presented it to my boss and asked his opinion. Now that same reporting model is used across the board at other subsidiaries besides us. Nobody asked me to do it, I had the time to do it and did. Our parent company was prepared to make us change accounting software becuase the reports out of quickbooks weren't sufficient for a lot of their needs, and now because of the reports and macros I've created they're perfectly happy to remain on Quickbooks saving tens of thousands on software. The point is I was never asked to do any of this because they didn't even realize there was a problem let alone a simple solution.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Anonymous]

Thank you both for your responses. The feedback has been very insightful and provides me a new perspective.

@mla11692 I must admit, when working I tend to focus more on the accounting work and getting it done efficiently and effectively. I have noticed others in the office may not be as competent in their accounting work, but they tend to help out more around the office and are even cheerleaders for others and they sometimes have an easier time. It all depends on the group of people I suppose.

If it's one thing I've learned, public accounting isn't a job where you can just go in to do your job and go home. It is a much more dynamic of a profession. What is troubling though is why don't they just tell you if you are doing something wrong or where you can improve so that way you can improve as an employee and professional? Wouldn't that be much more productive and effective instead of gaslighting, bullying, and manipulating employees? I have about six years of experience and not once have I received any formal performance review from any firm I've worked with.

Either way, I am confident once I complete the exam I can fairly easily obtain a Managerial role and move on with my career. It just bewilders me that management at many CPA firms is so poor. I don't see the logic or reasoning behind it.

[ruggercpa2b]

That is strange that you have never received a formal performance review. All the firms I have worked I have received a review after each audit. Also, I view review notes as a way of telling me what I need to be working on and need to improve on. What do they use at year end for your performance evaluation and determine your raise or promotions if you are not getting formal reviews?

I guess every place is different. Even when I did not get a formal review because it was busy season and no one had time, I always asked my direct senior or manager how I was doing. Eventually I got one but I wanted to know what I could work on and not make the same mistakes on the engagements I was moving on to. Granted some people tell you you are doing a good job and then hit you with an awful review.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Missy]

I'm sure this will come across as off-putting but think you need to read your last post again.

On the one hand you want to be told if you're doing something wrong or how you can improve. On the other hand you believe you're ready for a managerial role once you pass the exams. Theres a serious disconnect between those two positions. If you want a managerial role you have to demonstate your preparedness by finding and addressing your own mistakes and identifying your own areas for improvement. If you need the earlier type of feedback and direction, you're not ready to manage unfortunately.

There are very few jobs that you can just do your job and go home, most are very entry level type positions. Again its a disconnected attitude with your career goals. I am not in public and never have been, but I wish I could walk out of here at 5pm and wash my hands of my job until 9 the next morning.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Anonymous]

@rugger – The only reviews I have received are review notes after I submit an engagement file to be reviewed by a Partner or Manager. Not once have I received a quarterly or annual type of performance review.

@mla – I understand that in my post there appears to be a disconnect. But I have trained many new employees and was informally given the title and referred to as “teacher” at my last firm considering I did my job and did it well. Each firm I was with I have had the opportunity to work on the best clients and build relationships with them. I work in a fairly populated/competitive area and I think the goal of many of the small public accounting firms here is to churn you out and have you work for one of their clients as an accountant/controller within the first 1-2 years. My salary was $65k as a Senior Accountant at one public accounting firm and one of their clients wanted me to come on board and offered a substantial increase in salary.

Though the reason I stayed in public was because I was comfortable with the work and experience I was getting and wanted to also focus on completing the CPA exam before moving onto another position.

I can go into much more detail about what I think may or may not be the case, but I think it can mostly be summed up as “issues working for a small CPA firm”. Once I obtain the CPA though, I think it will change things up quite a bit whether or not I plan to stay in public accounting or move to private as it is a valuable asset for a small firm to keep CPAs.

[Anonymous]

Also I think there is a lot of shady business in Florida. I've worked for firms where the Owner came back from a client with a black eye. Another audit client had a pretty large amount of revenue wired in from an “unknown source overseas” and the owner did not want to ask about it. This is just to name a few and I can definitely go on lol.

Pretty sketchy if you ask me. I sum all this up as “issues working for small CPA firms”.

[Anonymous]

Also just want to add that due to the nature of the environments I've worked in, I would say my experience probably makes me even more qualified for a managerial role. Working in competitive environments helps you become more independent and aware of workplace issues that you wouldn't necessarily encounter at the larger firms where everything is streamlined.

I am very interested in what kind of experience average seniors and managers have at the larger firms. If employees are leaving their computers open and pay very little attention to security of their personal devices and information, I wonder what kind of experience do they have that I would not be able to fulfill as a Manager? It seems to me that accountants at larger firms are unaware of the big picture, whereas I have worked on several complete engagements from start to finish and drafted financials and managerial reports for clients within several different industries including clients with revenues in excess of $50M.

Curious on your thoughts.

[ruggercpa2b]

Leaving my laptop unlocked while I run to the bathroom has no bearing on my experience at all. You are generalizing that accountants at larger firms are unaware of the big picture. Also just because you lock your computer does not mean you are going to be a great manager.

I worked at a Big 4 and worked at a mid sized firm and looking at the big picture was always encouraged. Not to mention it was very competitive.

You were complaining about working in a small firm and now you are saying your experience is far more superior than those that have worked at bigger firms. I drafted financials for my clients even as a second year staff.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Missy]

My thoughts are that you should shoot for the stars and pull out all the stops to get to where you want to be in your career.

My thoughts are likely not going to be helpful to you becuase they are from the perspective of someone who does hiring, and not at all aligned with how you perceive that process to go. But I can tell you with absolute certainty that the traits you feel will serve you well in management are not generally what is being sought for management roles, experience supervising others (not simply training but evaluating their performance) is a pretty big deal for a company where you'd be a new hire.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Author]

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