[futureCPA12]

For those in Audit, how many hours do you typically work in a week? I’ve been averaging about 45 hours a week and I’m a 1st year staff. Am I an anomaly?

[impska]

What are you doing at work that you have so much non-charge?

Our firm tells us that our billing is how they make budgets and know how many hours to allocate to projects. Like I said, it's not up to me to decide how many hours/what rates get billed to clients. It's up to me to accurately record my time in the office (rounded up to the time interval required).

Do you just have a lot of time when you're not assigned to anything?

REG - 94
BEC - 92
FAR - 92
AUD - 99

[impska]

What are you doing at work that you have so much non-charge?

Our firm tells us that our billing is how they make budgets and know how many hours to allocate to projects. Like I said, it's not up to me to decide how many hours/what rates get billed to clients. It's up to me to accurately record my time in the office (rounded up to the time interval required).

Do you just have a lot of time when you're not assigned to anything?

REG - 94
BEC - 92
FAR - 92
AUD - 99

[mystical guy]

Is it true what I've heard about Audit that some of the long hours people call “work” are actually waiting for someone else to finish something, so you spend the time story-telling? lol. E.g., the Senior has to finish xyz so we get to sit down and talk about your pets and spouses…etc.. If that's a rumor, I apologize to all you hard workers out there 🙂

CPA - Since 2015
CISA - Smashed 2012
CIA - Passed 2015

[mystical guy]

Is it true what I've heard about Audit that some of the long hours people call “work” are actually waiting for someone else to finish something, so you spend the time story-telling? lol. E.g., the Senior has to finish xyz so we get to sit down and talk about your pets and spouses…etc.. If that's a rumor, I apologize to all you hard workers out there 🙂

CPA - Since 2015
CISA - Smashed 2012
CIA - Passed 2015

[Study Monk]

I guess I really didn't work in real public accounting since the firms I worked at did not ride me that much on billing. Always having that pressure to be super productive must really burn people out. It also sounds like a lot of illegal billing is present at some of your firms. I hope i can find a job in private accounting after I pass my CPA exam.

I spoke to an ancient wise man who sent me on a mushroom induced journey through an ancient forest to find the key to passing the CPA exam. A talking spider monkey told me to throw the last of my drinking water in the dirt to find what I was looking for. So I followed his instructions and the following message appeared in the soil:

"Do 5000 multiple choice questions for each section"

[Study Monk]

I guess I really didn't work in real public accounting since the firms I worked at did not ride me that much on billing. Always having that pressure to be super productive must really burn people out. It also sounds like a lot of illegal billing is present at some of your firms. I hope i can find a job in private accounting after I pass my CPA exam.

I spoke to an ancient wise man who sent me on a mushroom induced journey through an ancient forest to find the key to passing the CPA exam. A talking spider monkey told me to throw the last of my drinking water in the dirt to find what I was looking for. So I followed his instructions and the following message appeared in the soil:

"Do 5000 multiple choice questions for each section"

[impska]

I don't understand the this unethical or illegal billing idea. Firms usually quote flat audit fees to the client. They put that quote together based on how many manhours will be involved. If you eat time, then how are they supposed to know what to bill? And how is that fair to next year's workers, when you've set an unrealistic time-goal because you didn't log your time?

Maybe people are just confused about what some us call a billable hour. If you are doing work that is related to a client, then it's billable. Whether or not it's actually billed isn't up to the associate. Someone else makes that decision.

Tax returns have a stronger tendency to be hourly – but most firms will set a minimum.

But I am genuinely curious what people are calling “non charge” time. I go to work and I'm there 10-12 hours a day during busy season, And there is actual work to do for 10-12 hours a day. How do you go to work 70 hours a week and only “charge” 55?

It makes me glad I work at a firm where I go to work for 55 hours a week and work 55 hours a week.

REG - 94
BEC - 92
FAR - 92
AUD - 99

[impska]

I don't understand the this unethical or illegal billing idea. Firms usually quote flat audit fees to the client. They put that quote together based on how many manhours will be involved. If you eat time, then how are they supposed to know what to bill? And how is that fair to next year's workers, when you've set an unrealistic time-goal because you didn't log your time?

Maybe people are just confused about what some us call a billable hour. If you are doing work that is related to a client, then it's billable. Whether or not it's actually billed isn't up to the associate. Someone else makes that decision.

Tax returns have a stronger tendency to be hourly – but most firms will set a minimum.

But I am genuinely curious what people are calling “non charge” time. I go to work and I'm there 10-12 hours a day during busy season, And there is actual work to do for 10-12 hours a day. How do you go to work 70 hours a week and only “charge” 55?

It makes me glad I work at a firm where I go to work for 55 hours a week and work 55 hours a week.

REG - 94
BEC - 92
FAR - 92
AUD - 99

[littlenumberrobot]

Small CPA firm here. I worked 45-50 hours last year and anticipate less this year. I do get paid OT or get to bank it for extra days off. There are no minimum of hours, just get the work done.

CA CPA - All because of the journey listed below
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
FAR - 53('10), 8/25/12 79 PASSED!
REG - 66('11), 69('12), 12/06/12 77 PASSED!!
BEC - 58('10), 74('12), 01/05/13 77 PASSED!!!
AUD - 43('11), 66('12), 69('13), 74('13) 7/29/13 85 PASSED!!!!!

(Combinations of Roger, Yaeger, Wiley Book, Wiley TB, & NINJA Notes)

Ethics 90%

[littlenumberrobot]

Small CPA firm here. I worked 45-50 hours last year and anticipate less this year. I do get paid OT or get to bank it for extra days off. There are no minimum of hours, just get the work done.

CA CPA - All because of the journey listed below
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
FAR - 53('10), 8/25/12 79 PASSED!
REG - 66('11), 69('12), 12/06/12 77 PASSED!!
BEC - 58('10), 74('12), 01/05/13 77 PASSED!!!
AUD - 43('11), 66('12), 69('13), 74('13) 7/29/13 85 PASSED!!!!!

(Combinations of Roger, Yaeger, Wiley Book, Wiley TB, & NINJA Notes)

Ethics 90%

[payfields]

@san4596

Unethical to bill more than you actually work? That makes no sense at all.

Entering billable time does not always mean you just send a bill for all that time, you have write ups and write downs.

We are not being paid per hour, we are being paid for a service. My clients do not even know what my rate is, i bill for a service and bill for what it is worth. We use the time we have in an engagement as a benchmark to know what we should bill. If a tax return takes me 10 minutes to do you are saying i should only bill 10 minutes worth of time at my hourly rate? Do you not understand overhead? Profit? If i answered a question or solved a problem in 10 minutes that would have taken someone much more time or themselves would have never figured out, i should still only charge for 10 minutes of my time?

You must not have any experience. Calling someone unethical for their billing practices when you don't understand them is pretty stupid.

[payfields]

@san4596

Unethical to bill more than you actually work? That makes no sense at all.

Entering billable time does not always mean you just send a bill for all that time, you have write ups and write downs.

We are not being paid per hour, we are being paid for a service. My clients do not even know what my rate is, i bill for a service and bill for what it is worth. We use the time we have in an engagement as a benchmark to know what we should bill. If a tax return takes me 10 minutes to do you are saying i should only bill 10 minutes worth of time at my hourly rate? Do you not understand overhead? Profit? If i answered a question or solved a problem in 10 minutes that would have taken someone much more time or themselves would have never figured out, i should still only charge for 10 minutes of my time?

You must not have any experience. Calling someone unethical for their billing practices when you don't understand them is pretty stupid.

[payfields]

@impska

I can't speak for others but my non-charge time consists of staff meetings, IT work, firm administration. Things that can't really be attributed directly to a client. Being a smaller firm we handle a lot of stuff internally. Most of our non-charge time is entered by administration or clerical workers.

[payfields]

@impska

I can't speak for others but my non-charge time consists of staff meetings, IT work, firm administration. Things that can't really be attributed directly to a client. Being a smaller firm we handle a lot of stuff internally. Most of our non-charge time is entered by administration or clerical workers.

[payfields]

@study monk?

What is this illegal billing you speak of? Have you read an engagement letter before? When clients walk into your door do you tell them “we charge $200 per hour”? I fail to see how any billing practices in here are “illegal”.

[Author]

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