[Anonymous]

Hmmm, so I’m curious to hear the opinions of the A71 ladies…do you, generally speaking, as a gender, feel like you make significantly less money than your male counterparts? Accounting for information asymmetry in most cases, do you perceive that you make less money than male colleagues? I’ve felt that we’ve (as a society) come a long way in bridging the gap between men and women in pay, but an article that I just read said women were still pulling down about $0.91 to the $1 of men’s salary (it was initially like 77%, but after compensating for industry differences and educational differences, it came closer to 91%). So this article got me thinking…I wonder if that transcends private industry into public accounting. As female CPAs (or in-progress CPAs), do you feel like you make less money than men? If you do, why do you think that is? Do you think it’s flat-out discrimination? Or do you think it’s because of unavoidable biological life events that may deter a woman’s progress up the ladder, so-to-speak (i.e., pregnancy, child rearing, etc.)? I’d be curious to hear your thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Wow! Tons of great responses. So let me see if I can summarize some of the viewpoints:

-Women can be family-oriented or career-oriented, but not both.

-If women are as aggressive or ego-driven as men, they come across bitchy.

-Women have trouble (in some cases) reporting to, managing, or working with other women due to snap judgments/hormones/stress

-Men can be easier to work with because of the detachment of emotion from the accomplishment of the objective.

-Men are just big blowhards who don't add any value, but rather, essentially re-enact mad men (i.e., clinking glasses of scotch while slapping the women colleagues on the butt and ordering them to fetch lunch, make copies, answer phones, and to generally stay out of the boy's club) and yet, still get paid more and promoted quicker than their female counterparts.

Had to lol at the last one…may have exaggerated a bit, but it seems like there is a perception of that there. My only personal experience (i.e., someone very close to me) with women succeeding in the work place is my Mom. She's my role model and the reason I got into business (although she works in Finance). As I said, she's a senior VP at a huge bank in their business lending department (makes millions of dollars worth of collateralized loans to companies)…her team loves her because she's fair, but she is viewed as kind of a bitch in the industry by her peers (her words, not mine). Now, I'll tell you that she has been offered promotions throughout my entire life growing up and she never took them because it would have required her to move states. I'll also tell you that she was working a lot when I was growing up and she did miss a lot of my baseball games and whatnot…I know on a couple occasions, I had to stay with my Dad because she was pulling an all-nighter at the office. But, she's also never taken a loss on a deal and even without taking certain promotions, she clears close to a quarter mill with bonuses. So, there certainly seems to be a trade-off between climbing the corporate ladder quickly and being closer to your family.

[Trisha]

Mostly agree ~ except I think woman can be both, just maybe not as fast without sacrifice 🙂

REG 72, 86 and DONE!!!
BEC 80 🙂
FAR 72, 78 🙂
AUD 73, 76 🙂

[Anonymous]

@sarah210 – I've asked now maybe 4-5 times and every time except for one I got something. Usually, they'll meet you in the middle. You have to think of it as buying a car or a house. You NEVER pay sticker price! There's always some room in there to negiotiate and they will expect some people to.

100% True story: My wife who admittedly isn't a very good negotiator (it's just not her personality) told me her job offered her a 1% raise after she busted her ass for a year. I wrote management a letter (pretending it was her) for her to present to them, outlined about 15 bullet points on how well she performed her job, cited salary.com to demonstrate how underpaid she was for her industry and asked for a 10% raise. This company was notoriously cheap and I figured she might get an extra 1-2%. After her jerk immediate superior laughed in her face. She made her submit the letter to upper mgmt and they actually gave her the whole 10%!

To answer your question: Come annual review time when they pull you into the office to go over the performance report, you strongly OBJECT to anything that isn't above satisfactory or exemplary. (This is the tactic they use to justify paying you crap.) Don’t settle for average but make sure you can demonstrate WHY. (Save emails, document compliments etc.) Then when they offer you the 2-3% or whatever you tell them very confidently you are worth more than that and you deserve XXX (quote the dollar figure you have in mind on the high end). Like I said MOST of the time you’ll get something even if you don’t get everything you want. ALWAYS be as PROFESSIONAL about it as possible and be prepared to draft a written request. Don’t take it personally and always have a smile on your face. Obviously every company handles things differently so tailor what I said to fit your situation. I always wait until annual review time and I found the HIGHER the mgmt chain you go to make the request the more likely you are to get your raise. Middle managers are the worst to deal with cause they’re just kiss asses.

[musicamor]

@blue…sounds like you have had some bad experiences with men in general? I wonder why you feel it is necessary to take such a dogmatic stance about helping someone else out with their audit bag or getting lunch? Let me ask you, are you referring to when men ask you to do those tasks or are women included in your “not-so-quick-to-help” stance? Just curious.

@Sarah…working with women is not a big “thing.” I will tell you that my bad experience heavily outweight my good experience with my female mentor/boss.

Texas CPA - licensed in 2012!!!

[Anonymous]

My current boss is a woman and she is absolutely fantastic.

My prior boss was a woman also and she was an incompetant bitch.

Like anything else it really just depends on the personality you get male or female.

[Anonymous]

@musicamor I don't have a problem with helping out. In fact that is probably my weak point. In general I have a problem with the assumption that because I am a woman of course I will organize everyone's things, order lunch, get coffee, clear up the table after lunch etc.

When asked to order lunch (every time) it puts me in an awkward position. I must take everyone's orders like a waitress, drive to pick it up and be to blame if the food isn't as expected. It wastes otherwise billable hours on my end. If I say no it looks like I don't want to be helpful or I'm too good to do it. (for the record I don't think anyone is too good to make coffee, etc.) Its a no win situation in my case.

I find that men are less likely to assign me difficult tasks because they would rather do it themselves so they can take credit. I find women are less likely to assign me difficult tasks because they are afraid of the competition.

I just want to get the job done and learn the most efficient way to do things. I shouldn't have to be overly worried about the direction of my career due to the actions of others. I should only truly be worried about myself and my performance. But when in a professional setting a man treats me like their high school daughter or their wife. (ie. keep track of messages re their dry cleaning) I get understandably insulted. The men in the firm are not treated in the same way.

I am a professional and would like to be treated as such. From day one I should have never volunteered to help out with other tasks. I thought it would endear me as helpful and easy to work with. I blame much of this on myself. I didn't understand that being nice would end up limiting my opportunities.

/endrant

[littlenumberrobot]

I agree with bluegirl, I tend to have similar attitudes

CA CPA - All because of the journey listed below
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
FAR - 53('10), 8/25/12 79 PASSED!
REG - 66('11), 69('12), 12/06/12 77 PASSED!!
BEC - 58('10), 74('12), 01/05/13 77 PASSED!!!
AUD - 43('11), 66('12), 69('13), 74('13) 7/29/13 85 PASSED!!!!!

(Combinations of Roger, Yaeger, Wiley Book, Wiley TB, & NINJA Notes)

Ethics 90%

[mgoloubenko]

Agree with BlueGirl completely as well, I don't have much work experience yet but I really hate doing those kinds of activities like ordering lunch, fetching coffee. Like I guess someone has to do it, but I feel the same way guys would describe as being “emasculated” by a task. I don't know if it's just a intern/first year kind of role, but many of my other intern friends were not even asked to fill that particular role.

FAR 4/9/12- PASSED
BEC 7/13/12- PASSED
AUD 8/16/12- Ughhh 71, Rematch: 90!!!
REG-12/6/12 PASSED

USC MAcc- Fight on!

They say good things come to those who wait, but only those things that are left by those who hustle.

[mgoloubenko]

Oh and people would order salads with like 100 different topics, dressings etc and then get pissed when something didn't turn out right, even though it was the salad place that had gotten confused. I hate that kinda stuff.

FAR 4/9/12- PASSED
BEC 7/13/12- PASSED
AUD 8/16/12- Ughhh 71, Rematch: 90!!!
REG-12/6/12 PASSED

USC MAcc- Fight on!

They say good things come to those who wait, but only those things that are left by those who hustle.

[Tootsie]

I have been in the accounting profession for about 6 years now. I have had both female and male bosses and have to admit that for the most part, the male bosses were better. My boss now is probably the best boss I've had thus far, but his boss is a total jerk and everybody knows it. Get this, his boss, we'll call him Dave, he had the nerve to email me and ask me for a coffee one day. I am not in an assistant job. Like the wuss I am at times, I got his coffee. Then, he emailed me a week later (along with another employee, who is higher up than me) for one of us to get him a sandwich and drink! I told the other employee No, that I had work to do. So he went and got the stuff for him!! I think I got some b***s that day, lol. Let's just say Dave is acting a lot differently around me now, more business-like and less of a jerk. I think there will always be guys who are intimidated by intelligent women/women in higher level positions and want to make them feel like they are beneath them. I think Dave wanted to put me in my place. I could be wrong, but it sure felt that way.

I negotiated salary for the first time last year for a big 4 job and they rejected my negotiation. For the current job I am in (financial services), I negotiated a second time, salary and vacation, and got both! I think if women had more confidence in themselves and knew how to negotiate better, they would negotiate more. I was so scared of negotiating, but finally got the courage to do it, and look what I got.

FAR - 76
AUD - 88!!! DONE!!!!!!!!
BEC - 76
REG - 77

never, never, never give up

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I actually kind of agree that it's bullshit if your boss is only asking the women to get lunch and whatnot, but if he's asking everyone, than maybe it's not intentional. Like for me, I started the same time (June 2011) as this insufferable b-word, kiss ass…well, traditionally, the first years are in charge of keeping the food stocked so when they asked us, she piped up and said she would “love to” because she's got a bulk-store membership card and blah blah blah. So I'm like, whatever, go for it. Then, halfway through the year, she's complaining about how she's always getting the food, so I'm like, “ok, u want me to do it?” and she's like, “no, it's ok, I actually kind of like it” (yea, she's crazy). But now, she's set a precedent for herself, so she gets more menial tasks and I get more challenging, analytical stuff (granted, I'm a CPA and she's not, so that's a factor as well). And likely, I'm going to get promoted this year and she probably won't. But, I think in that case, she did it to herself, ya know? I mean besides the fact that I am legitimately better than her, I don't think her brown-nosing tendencies helped her cause.

[abacus]

Saw this article and thought of this thread:

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/business/to-solve-the-gender-wage-gap-learn-to-speak-up.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&smid=FB-nytimes

BEC 81
AUD 76
FAR 70, 76
REG 58, 78! DONE!

"I am not my intentions. I am my actions."

[Author]

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