[CPAbgon]

Hello,

I’ve just started my Macc program. I am a career switch, and accounting seems to be my calling in life. I’m good, my profs like me, and even most of my other students like me (I tutor a lot). Those who teach me, go to class with me, or my BAP fellow members speak highly of me.

However, I seem to be having problems landing a job. I have one tax season worth of experience at a small CPA firm that uses CCH prosytems and engagement. I heard behind closed doors compliments. I’m really ambitious (and some are put off by how overachieving I can be, but there’s not a lot I can do about that). I’m interested in international tax.

I’ve gotten an interview in some way with every top-10 firm I’ve applied to, and a half dozen large local, and regional firms. However, despite my grades, reasonable accounting experience, and excellent pre-accounting experience I’m not getting offers. People I know who are significantly less qualified are getting offers before me. It’s really bugging me, and I’d like some advice.

[Missy]

also do you have the 150 credits required to be licensed? That's often a prerequisite in public. Why a Macc if your passion is tax? I'd imagine you'd want to go the MST route.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[kpine1852]

I found this tread incredibility interesting and full of advice.

I can't say I relate but hopefully there's good advice to give in my story. I'm two years out of my masters, my GPA was nothing to brag about and I'm STILL working on the CPA exam. However, I've managed to land an offer with every interview I've had. I go to the interview confident in myself but not in an “I'm the best” attitude because I know for a fact I'm actually pretty low on the totem pole. I'm personable and I love to learn. I let show that I'm passionate about accounting and I love talking about what I do.

My advice is to show them something that isn't on paper. They can read your resume and cover letter – you get the interviews because you have amazing qualifications. They know you are smart and fully capable of doing the job. But show them you are more than what they see on one sheet of paper. If you loved helping other students before class, tell them I did this because I saw others who needed my help and wanted to make a difference. If it annoyed you to teach others, then don't bring it up and find other examples in your life you genuinely like doing.

[Superdude3000]

Do you have CPA? You have it in the title but don't mention it anywhere in your post, but you also have Macc in your title and are only now beginning it so maybe you're just planning on getting your CPA?
You have to be able to differentiate yourself from other candidates. Getting a masters and planning to get your CPA is good, having a good GPA is also great. There's always more you can do though. I graduated Magna Cum Laude from UW but I knew GPA really only gets you in the door and doesn't guarantee anything beyond that. I got a spot on my school's student accounting association board to show I care about accounting and helping others. I spent my whole junior-senior year summer doing recruiting events and mock interviews to prepare myself for the kind of questions I would be asked during interviews. I also am an introvert but I know how to be extroverted when I need to be. I also got approved to sit for the CPA exam early in my state which showed ambition. I had two different individuals from the firm I really loved ask me out to lunch and I accepted both offers. Turns out those were essentially my interviews because I got a job offer the day after the second lunch before ‘official' interviews even started. As many have said before, much of what the top-10 firms are looking for is culture fit and not as much as technical competency. Somebody else I know who got hired at the same firm as me did not have nearly as good of a GPA, wasn't a part of the school's accounting club, and is only now sitting fur the CPA exam, but she's very easy to talk to, funny, and is just an all around good fit with our firm.

[Anonymous]

Doug – What type of jobs are you applying to?

Please don't misinterpret the following, this is only constructive. The phrases “Career switch” and “Just starting my MAcc”, tell me: 1. You have a bachelors, but not in accounting; and 2. You have less than one years worth of actual experience. My conclusion would be that, at this point, you have little to no education or experience and, outside of an internship, you are not qualified for the jobs you are applying.

Also, how are you presenting your education and work experience?

I clicked on this post because I thought I was going to read about someone who has their earned a 4.0 in their MAcc and is a licensed CPA that can't find a job. That does not appear to be true. You just started your MAcc and you do not have your CPA. I hope your resume is not as misleading.

[CPAbgon]

Some questions here

I'm 30 (about 5 years older than average).

I've just started MACC, but my undergraduate accounting and business classes and MACC classes for which I have a grade (about 50 credits total), I have a 4.0.

Previous to accounting I worked for a think-tank in economic development and invested in real-estate. I don't like politics anymore and investments in real-estate were to provide value and tax-free cash for my parents. I'm done with it, and really only did it by necessity. I'm kind of a finance wiz. Literally never taken a class before entering Macc and I teach it to many in the class. Prof and I talk about pretty advanced topics and he will send other students to me to explain things. Done well for myself. Not interested as a profession. Looking for stable career and tired to jumping from investment to investment. It's stressful and beating the market requires being smarter or faster, and being out of the way. Treating my current investments as my retirement and it is going to grow without my involvement henceforth. It's a nice nest egg.

I'm applying to tax because I hate the government and want to help people plan their estates (since my parents did it poorly) and international (because I have foreign investments and I'm not interested in fighting market trends).

Not getting Mtax or MST because in my area it costs an extra $20,000 compared to Macc. Only one university offers it, it's far away from me, and only marginally improves hire rates and salary, and doesn't improve CPA pass rates. I'll learn more as I go.

I have more than 150 hours, but not yet 30 upper level hours Accounting hours (21) and 24 business hours (have 18, I think). Starting CPA review with dean of my school next week. Will get two sections out before tax season. Other two next summer. Will have Macc and CPA wrapped up by next summer (August likely).

I'm looking for that internship that leads to a full-time position.

I'm always enthusiastic to learn new skills and more than willing to help others.

[Anonymous]

I'm confused, “I've just started my MACC, but my undergraduate accounting and business classes” and “Literally never taken a class before entering MAcc” are contradictory statements.

[Missy]

I think you need to try to think more like a hiring manager.

Everything you've said above is lovely, give yourself a pat on the back and be proud of your accomplishments.

The only thing you've posted in this thread that will even remotely matter to a hiring manager is in your first post where you almost gloss over the fact you've got one tax season under your belt. I'd focus on THAT and none of the rest in an interview.

The rest of it, from your GPA (which only matters if you're a 22 year old kid with no experience), to the tutoring (basically perceived as volunteer work, a nice discussion topic but not part of a hiring decision, particularly for a person with professional experience. Thats impressive when talking to a 21 year old, not so much for a 30 year old), to your investment savvy (also unless the hiring manager is interested in the same investments its not even interesting). Nobody in Tax cares about a MACC, at this point its only a way to meet the educational requirements to be licensed.

If you actually want to know what the hiring manager thinks, they want someone who meets the educational requirements to take the exam on day 1 and is a good culture fit. The rest is nothing more than fluff factor. I'm telling you, you're placing more value on the things a hiring manager doesn't even consider in a decision.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[CPAbgon]

Drumstick,

Read again. Should be very clear from the grammatical context. I'm clearly talking about *finance* classes. I never took a *finance* class before my Macc.

[CPAbgon]

Missy,

So far I've been very clear that I don't have a lot of accounting experience. I said I'm a career switch. That really doesn't matter. I'll learn it twice as fast as my peers, just like in class. My selling points are I'm really smart, much more willing than average to help people, and I go the extra mile on everything.

To be frank, I don't care in the least about the interview process. I'm just trying to fake my way through it to get a job. Once I get the job I'll blow the competition out of the water like I have with everything else. The interview process is a relic olden days anyway. It has about a 10% correlation to job performance and success. A simple IQ test gives a 40% correlation. Adding in personality trait “conscientiousness” (those who are orderly and work hard) adds another 30%. People are terrible pickers of talent. That means if you administer a wonderlic and a big five personality test and factor for highest scores you'll have a 70% improvement on job performance prediction. “Culture fit” is a ridiculous concept that everyone believes and for which there is absolutely no quantifiable data. It is a technical way to say “a popularity contest.” American politics shows how well popularity contests are at picking the best candidate. Thank God Richard Thaler won the Nobel Prize.

One of the reasons I've done pretty well is because I don't care about sentimentality. What I'm struggling with in the accounting field is that they are basing their job choices seemingly entirely on sentimentality. Does that mean they are choosing based on intuition when they should be choosing based on quantifiable analysis? Yes. Can I change it? Thaler says no. So I better adapt to their inferior way of thinking. That's what I am trying to figure out. Not whether or not I am a good candidate. It's how to fool them into believing the obvious fact that I am the best candidate.

[Missy]

None of that matters in public accounting recruiting…..see how well its working for you so far? Not sure why you're even posing a question here, since its clear you believe you've got it all figured out already.

Sentimentality? lol, no. When you've got the educational prereq met for licensure you'll have better luck. EVERY candidate claims they'll knock out the credits and the exams in a few months. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE.

But what do I know, I'm only a 47 year old licensed CPA who's been in the workforce since the late 80's.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[lam2848]

@Doug

Hopefully my personal experiences help you! I know you mentioned that you don't really care about the interview process but I think the interview process is pretty important. If you don't nail the interview, then you don't get the job. I think your interviewing skills may be holding you back. Some employers may not think you are a good fit based on how you answer their questions. I got my first tax accounting internship when I was an undergrad (junior year top 20 accounting firm) and I had no tax experience whatsoever. I hadn't even taken my tax accounting class yet. But when I got hired I was told it was because of how nice I was and how I answered the interview questions. And the firm liked me so much that they gave me a full time offer after the end of the internship (to start when I graduate).

So I think maybe you shouldn't compare yourself too much to others (It seems like you think that because of your experience and intelligence that you should get jobs over others). Maybe just focus on yourself and what you can do better for the next interview. Also if your school has a career center I would take full advantage of that. Many firms love to recruit at colleges!

And the fact that you can't sit for the CPA yet (don't have enough accounting credits) may also be a reason why you aren't getting hired.

[IwannabeaCPA2017]

Being smart is very important in every field I believe.. but personality is equally important. I'm pretty new in the field but I rather work with someone who is chill and easy going may not know much than someone who think they are “superior” than others… Hate to tie this to politics but someone like our sitting president- I do not wanna work with – “BELIEVE ME!” My point is, you can be the smartest person but try to be humble when someone over say their accomplishment it gets a bit annoying.. I'm not trying to undermine your accomplishments. in fact its very impressive! Not many people can keep up with 4.0. For example. I met this kid- he is prob the smartest guy I know and did end up getting the EWS award.. but he always thinks he's the “best” he also had a hard time finding a job- ended up working at this company (fortune 100) that his dad was a director at. All in all, if you tone down a bit (try to be more down to earth) and offers will come your way.

[ruggercpa2b]

I will have to say the interview process is very important even though you say you dont care about it. I had an undergrad GPA of 2.5 and on paper I would never make the cut. I knew that I needed to get in front of the recruiters to even stand a chance. I got an offer from a Big 4 and worked there for 3 years.

I think you are missing the mark. Having a 4.0 GPA really does not matter because as sad as it sounds it really is about the popularity contest. Are you someone that when everyone is at a client stuck in a room for months during busy season they can see getting along with. These are all things that are factored into the hiring process.

I think you need to adapt your way of thinking and rethink how you are selling yourself during an interview. My selling points are I'm really smart, much more willing than average to help people, and I go the extra mile on everything. – What else can you provide as a selling point other than I am really smart? No one wants to work with someone who is going to come off as a know it all. Everyone at the Big 4 firms think they are smart so that's not new.

AUD - 73, 72 retake 7/2/2016
BEC - 8/20/2016
REG - TBD
FAR - TBD

I am so ready for this nightmare to be over. Been at this way too long.

[Bourne]

While I like your thinking Doug and it seems that you're motivated, it's easy to tell that simply your attitude is what is working against you in finding a job. As much as you don't like the idea of “culture fit”, it'll be around for much longer than you and I will be, so you may as well suck it up and *try* to find somewhere that you can fit with. You're gonna need a lot of luck on that one.

[VanDammage]

Doug, if you're going into interviews with the same attitude that you've displayed in this thread then I'm not surprised you're having trouble. I agree with the posters who said that you should work on humility.

Also, as someone who has interviewed and hired plenty of candidates, personality plays a big role. A lot of hiring managers prefer a slightly above average performer with a great attitude to a high performer with a bad attitude. I suspect that you're coming across as the latter in your interviews.

Are you going into detail about your investment prowess in interviews? Are you talking about how much smarter you are than the other students in your program? Do you say things like this: ” I'm kind of a finance wiz. “?

[Author]

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