[CPAbgon]

Hello,

I’ve just started my Macc program. I am a career switch, and accounting seems to be my calling in life. I’m good, my profs like me, and even most of my other students like me (I tutor a lot). Those who teach me, go to class with me, or my BAP fellow members speak highly of me.

However, I seem to be having problems landing a job. I have one tax season worth of experience at a small CPA firm that uses CCH prosytems and engagement. I heard behind closed doors compliments. I’m really ambitious (and some are put off by how overachieving I can be, but there’s not a lot I can do about that). I’m interested in international tax.

I’ve gotten an interview in some way with every top-10 firm I’ve applied to, and a half dozen large local, and regional firms. However, despite my grades, reasonable accounting experience, and excellent pre-accounting experience I’m not getting offers. People I know who are significantly less qualified are getting offers before me. It’s really bugging me, and I’d like some advice.

[r00shine]

Hi Doug,

The interviews at many of the top firms look at your personality a lot more than your technical knowledge/ability. By getting the interview, they pretty much already think you have what it takes to do the job technically and/or learn how to do the job. The interviews are to see if you will fit in with the culture of the firm and whether your coworkers would be able to stand being in a room with you for 16 hours a day during busy season. You said yourself that people might be put off by your ambitious/overachieving personality so that might be a big reason for the lack of success so far. You could maybe try mock interviews with strangers (there are places that do that) and ask them what they think of you. Or perhaps you can just try toning down some of the things you think might put people off, at least for the interview. Best of luck!

[Missy]

Two distinct possibilities: you've just started a Macc and have a year tax experience. Your other accomplishments are admirable but don't necessarily make you more qualified than those getting offers, probably also people with an undergrad and around a year experience including internships. Meaning you're overestimating your worth to employers. Extreme example: a cpa applying for a cashier job at McDonald's, cpa has more credentials but that doesn't mean they're more qualified.

Other possibility is that you're coming off to them as too ambitious for the positions you're applying to. Even at entry level they don't want someone who will bolt in 6 months when a better opportunity presents itself.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[ellejay]

It could be they think you aren't a good culture fit. I am introverted, so I have a similar problem. I have good grades, and all the qualifications, and can't land a job at any top 10 firm because I am quiet and socially awkward. I get interviews and even solicited through LinkedIn but no bites. People are always very nice to me and tell me I'm a great fit, but no offer letter. It's really frustrating. 🙁 Unfortunately I don't have any advice – hopefully someone else does, but I wanted to give you my input. For a lot of larger firms, culture seems to be extremely important to them.

[CPAbgon]

Hi Missy,

It is not my intention to leave the firm I join any time soon. I'm intending on staying as long as I can tolerate in one place, which could be my entire career.

[Juice23]

I'm sure you mean well, but based on your post above you seem to think very highly of yourself. Try humility, see if it works. Instead of thinking you're better than everyone else getting the jobs you want, why don't you take a serious look at them and ask why they might have been chosen ahead of you.

To be quite frank, there is actually a lot you can do about other people being put off by “how overachieving you can be.” Being an overachiever is not a put off, being annoying about it is. Do you think its possible that people are actually put off by something other than your being a supposed overachiever? I would do some soul searching, quiet your mind a bit, and take a good hard look at yourself.

You actually may be right about one thing: people “significantly less qualified” than you are probably getting jobs before you because I suspect they know they have a lot to learn and are open to being taught. The first 2 years of any job you get will be a whole lot of learning and gaining experience. If you do not come off like the kind of person who is willing to be patient and learn the trade, no one is going to hire you.

[CPAbgon]

Juice 23,

Ask all the people who I have helped pass their classes if they think I'm humble. Humble enough to spend an hour teaching someone before class just because they asked.

[Juice23]

With all due respect, that is not the response of a humble person.

[CPAbgon]

Humility is in actions; helping others you don't need to because they asked. It's not pretending you're less skilled than you are.

Who would you honestly rather hire? The guy who will stick around after hours and teach the new kid on his own time where he's struggling or what he's missing, or the guy who pretends not to have an opinion so he's not unpopular?

[Lentilcounter]

A well-written resume that matches up with the objectives of the job posting will most likely get you an interview. However, to pass the first interview and second/third interview (very common today), firms want to see how your personality matches with the people in their organization and with their clients.

I'll give you an example. When I was a junior in college and applying for internships, I got many first interviews but no one offered me a job. I then went to the career center and practiced mock interviews. It helped me to be more confident but I still wasn't having any luck. One day, I had a phone interview about yet another internship opportunity. They asked me (2 people in conference call with me) why they should pick me over the other candidates. I started off by talking about by accolades and accomplishments but then stopped myself. I said that I had very little real-world accounting experience at this point and that I was craving to get some of it. I said that if they would offer this internship for free and maybe pay me a few bucks for lunch because I like to eat, I would come. They laughed and asked why I said that? I told them that you need experience to get experience but if you don't have the former, all you can do is reach out and show someone that they should take a chance on you. They said they would announce their final pick in a few days. I got a call a few hours later saying I got the job and it would still be paid.

Some tips:
1. research your interviewers using Google (find out their backgrounds and anything that would help you in a conversation)
2. research the firm and the type of clients they serve
3. send thank you note emails or letters to interviewers

Finally, if you keep getting passed up by less-qualified people, find out what they have that you don't. Look at the way that they carry themselves or present themselves socially in a business setting. If you can learn to emulate that persona, perhaps you can be successful too.

It's a game, my friend. Put down your books and learn to play it.

“How to win friends and influence people” by Dale Carnegie. Check it out.

BEC = 72 (6/08/16)
FAR = ?
REG = ?
AUD = ?

[Juice23]

Why the false dilemma?

First of all, humility is not in actions. It is in actions aligned with intent. If your intent is to help people, you wouldn't feel the need to be defensive about helping people. You wouldn't care if you ever got recognition for it because the goal was to help people. So, at least in part, this is why I question your humility.

Second, who is talking about pretending you are skilled or not? That has nothing to do with this. Being humble and being smart and skilled are not mutually exclusive. You can be brilliant and humble–i know many people who are. You can literally know more than any other person on the planet about a given subject and still have a posture toward the world as someone who has more to learn. To think being humble means pretending you don't know anything is a truly sad thought.

I reaffirm my original response: If you do not come off like the kind of person who is willing to be patient and learn the trade, no one is going to hire you.

[Lentilcounter]

Also if you are applying for a senior or managerial role, then the interviewer is going to want to see certain leadership skills commensurate with that position's responsibilities. Humility isn't often paired with leaders but I believe it is possible to be both. It means someone who is not the smartest person in the room, but knows someone else who is smarter on the subject that can help and can ask for the help.

Now if you are applying for an entry level job, the interviewer probably isn't looking for crazy leadership skills. But if you are truly a rockstar, let your awesomeness be proven once you get the job and start working.

BEC = 72 (6/08/16)
FAR = ?
REG = ?
AUD = ?

[M123]

This is an amazing thread and very good guidance 🙂

The changer thing is going to be difficult under the best of conditions. Networking in every possible way is going to be key. University “meet the firms”, firm volunteer days, etc. Getting anywhere in these firms is about relationships. Get a relationship before the interview if one can.

Career change, higher pay needs (unless starting at staff salary agreeable?), older (even if discrimination illegal) – all challenges to overcome. It can be done – I have it on good authority. It may take waiting until MACC and exams are passed.

Please also update the group in 2 years and let us know how it went, what worked and what didn't. I think it will be instructive even if some of us move on by then. We'll always have Paris.

[Missy]

Well that's the thing, you say you're not looking to move on to another position quickly but people who do move on quickly say the same as well. Most people when they interview accentuate their positive qualities and an interviewer hears much of what you're saying in every interview.

What's missing here is your qualifications. When you're interviewing its much more important to discuss how many returns you've prepared or the types of tax situations you've encountered than your grades, tutoring, or accolades. None of those directly benefit the firm, they'd rather have a decent GPA, and someone who they can mold. You may be the best candidate but you're not communicating that to them clearly.

Either way you came here asking for feedback but are disappointed in the feedback you received. Very hard to give feedback based on two paragraphs of information but the more important feedback lies in getting an offer or not. Perhaps the folks interviewing you have some of the same concerns as expressed here. Interviewing isn't a science it's an art and obviously more subjective than you realize.

Licensed Massachusetts Non Reporting CPA since 2012
Finance/Admin/HR Manager

[Champhex]

Doug, you mentioned that your switch to accounting is a career change. Are you much older than your peers?

FAR-PASS-10/26/15
AUD-PASS-05/21/16
REG
BEC

[cantpassagain1]

From the sounds of it I agree with Juice23. While its jumping to conclusions, I think it has a leg to stand on. The reason for my agreement is that i've been there. Same position as you, I was the top of my Macc class and I thought that accounting was a career that GPA really mattered. And it does, most firms wont look at you if you have under X GPA. However, lets be real, accounting is not brain surgery, you dont need to be the best in order to do staff work when you have 3-4 reviewers over you.

When I was going through meet the firms in undergrad I told myself to really show that I am a go-getter. How many interviews did I get? 1, zero offers. I knew I had to change something. The following year I quite literally had to train myself to be different in this kind of environment. Every time I went home I asked my parents and brother to do mock interviews with me, to ask me rediculous questions, to play out how I knew meet the firms would be. After, I asked them to tell me how I acted. I would practice until it was impossible for me to not act like a sponge. That year I got 5 offers.

I know its tough to embrace something like this, and consciously try to change it. But its just something you have got to do to get a job. Would you rather all of your hard work be nullified? After all, im sure youve worked harder than anyone else in your program because I sure did.

[Author]

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