[KingKrown88]

Hi everyone,

I used to frequent this site a few years ago when I was taking the CPA exams. I was fortunate enough to pass the exams and I officially became licensed a little over a year ago. I’ve run into a bit of a dilemma with my career and want your advice.

I’m 27 years old and currently work for an international law firm in the tax department. I have been here for nearly three years now and realize that this is not a good place for a career. The problems that I’ve identified are that the department is small and there is little room for growth, the raises are cost of living raises only (and are also small and blanket raises), promotions are very hard to get, and the firm itself does not have interest in developing me. My work is largely menial tasks that, while serving a purpose, do not help me learn or grow much as a professional. I feel like I have learned all there is to learn here, and any other time I spend here will mostly be a waste of time. There are definitely positives, though. I like the people I work with, the compensation is ok (base of 57k and total comp of in the low 60s, with pretty good benefits), I usually do not work more than 40 hours a week (though this is not always true), the commute is very short, and I can handle the job. While this is not the worst spot in the world to be in, I expect and want more of myself and my career.

Now here is the problem. I am not sure where to go with my career, and I am finding that any other steps to make are not easy ones. The job market in my city is apparently very tough. I’ve contacted dozens of recruiters in the past 9 months and they have mainly done nothing for me. I have applied to dozens of new positions on my own, and I have updated my linked in and tried to make connections through there. In 9 months I have only gotten a few interviews and these did not pan out. The opportunities for new work are few and far between, and the chances I do get have not materialized into anything. I have also thought about working for the IRS and have put in applications there and tried to contact people directly but they, too, have been fruitless. I have only begun a hard work search since last Christmas, but I expected better results than this in that time. Perhaps I was too optomistic.

I graduated summa cum laude in my college and and top 1% of my high school classes. While I was always a very good student, I am not the type of whiz who can totally dominate a GMAT. If you need a 750-800 to get into a top MBA program, I would not get it. Most I could get would probably be about 700, and that is after a lot of prep. So I am turned off by the idea of going to get an MBA because of the amount of time and money it would take, and the fact that it might not differentiate myself much from my peers since I would likely not get into a top school (the same goes for law school, which I have also thought about). Also, I am turned off by the MBA idea since I do not really know what I am passionate about nor what a position would be like until I get into it. Seems like too much of a risk and too great a cost for a ton of uncertainty and not a lot of upside.

I began my career at one of the Big 4 and had a very bad experience there. Not worth rehashing now but I do not want to put myself in that type of situation again. But what I’m afraid of is while I am getting older and not really getting any new skills or knowledge, that going back into public may perhaps be the most viable solution. The feedback I’ve gotten from some interviewers are that my experience has been too specialized in tax and so they don’t even want to take the time to itnerview me for some positions because of that. So perhaps public is the solution, but I am very hesitant about this because of my bad experience. The problem is I don’t have a lot of differentiated skills to showcase for another private position at this point in my career.

I don’t need all the money under the sun to be happy. My view of success is earning a respectable salary (if I could get to between 70 and 90k in the next few years I would be pleased) while doing a job that I enjoy and get a feeling of importance from. All three are important in my mind: respectable salary, enjoyment, and a feeling of importance. If I cannot get enjoyment I at least want it to be tolerable. And if I get a feeling of importance with a tolerable position and this type of salary, I would probably not desire to make more money than this.

What would your advice to me be? Is going back into public the best solution? Is there something else I should try that I have not thought of? Apologies to be longwinded but I know how insightful the responses can be on here so I wanted to give everyone a pretty complete picture. Thank you in advance for your advice.

Chris

[KingKrown88]

Wow, 25k onetime bonus for big 4 promotion to manager? That's not what I've been hearing. I've been hearing the raises at big 4 are good percentage wise, but I had never heard of a bonus that high. For promotion to manager, I've heard “$150 Amex gift card” and “$6500” as bonuses.

[fuzyfro89]

It's tough to get a comparable experience to public accounting in industry. A few companies do provide enough variety in the experience to give you breadth early in your career (GE, Siemens rotation programs, etc comes to mind, and maybe a handful of others).

Working in an intl. law firm doing taxes? Nope. Hardly diverse, and as you said, little training and little room for growth. Other companies know that, or at the very least, don't look at you with the impression of “wow, he/she has seen a lot in the past 2 years”. On the contrary, you've probably done a few things really intensely in that time. GREAT if you like the field, but horrible if you don't.

Back to your question, a few options:

– Try and get into a larger company (or even a smaller one) with a well-regarded rotation program

– Go back to public. Don't let your bad experience taint you. You could easily have a bad experience at GT/BDO/Mcg just as often as you would at Big 4 (or even a small/regional firm).

I vote #1, but you've had a lot of trouble finding a good job in the past ~8 months. That's a long time. IMO, your skills are not valued… OR… there simply aren't enough opportunities in your area with the right fit for your background. Is #2 completely unbearable?

Timing is a big thing, and you may have to settle for whichever of #1 or #2 pans out first, since you can't exactly wait around forever for something that may never happen.

[Anonymous]

8 months a long time to find a job? Don't think so.

[KingKrown88]

It's good advice, Fruzio. Thank you. One of the biggest reasons why I haven't found anything in the past 8 months is that I've been selective. I have not looked at public at all, and I have turned down looking at places that could have been suitable myself due to their undesirable locations (I recently moved into the city to get away from commuting INTO the city. I now can't justify paying the high rent that I do to live in the city to spend the time/money to commute OUT of the city every day). That is a big part of it. The other big part of it is that my skills probably are not valued too much as you suggested.

To answer your question, public was absolutely unbearable for me (extremely long hours, I made very few real friends there, nobody gave me any guidance on the work even when I sought guidance, and I was just treated very poorly all in all). If the mentality at these places is still “figure it out” then I don't know if that's for me. It's completely awful to put so much of your own time in and not charge it while you try to figure some slop out that nobody is teaching you. However I've heard that each of the big 4 are different, and I've heard very similar stories about the one I worked at. I've heard that working at PWC in comparison to this one is night and day and that the culture at PWC is so much better than what I experienced. But I am fully aware that I could have a terrible experience anywhere and that luck is part of this.

[philb]

@acome Take it easy on fuzyfro. Don't you remember knowing everything when you were 25? 🙂

[Anonymous]

@bpk Krown said he was a tax guy, which is why I quoted tax salaries. Breaking 70k is pretty easy unless you work in Nowheresville, Ohio or Kentucky, in which case you're probably living like a king off 40k as a senior.

Anyway, sounds like he had a bad public experience in general. While the firms' cultures do obviously differ, the workload and expectations won't. Having no one be willing to teach you is just getting stuck with a bad team/engagement. Not every team is like that. When I was a staff I've had seniors/managers stop doing what they were doing to explain something to me like I was in school again. They know you don't know a thing, so it's up to them how much time they want to waste fixing your mistakes instead of teaching you.

[fuzyfro89]

A come: how long would you hold out for the right job?

My goals are not everyone's goals. I accept that. I would have a hard time trying without progress or hope for a reasonable chance at what I am aiming for for 8 months, but others may find that to be just the beginning.

King krown: I'll disclose that I used to work in a Big 4, and was happy to get out after 2 years, but glad I spent the time there. Even now, almost a year into my second job, people around the finance function at my company seem impressed that I spent time there. I'll admit I think it's overrated, after all what do you really learn in the first 2 years of any job, but just sharing my experience AFTER was very positive (while I had my own poop managers and clients to deal with).

[Anonymous]

fro: I was just thinking that in this economy, 8 months is unfortunately not unheard of. YMMV of course.

[Anonymous]

@KingKrown88

What is your experience in tax? Do you have experience with corporate tax return filing? state and local tax? any experience with using tax software tools? if so, which ones?

I currently work in a big 4 firm focusing in tax consulting, specifically on assisting companies with realigning their tax processes to maximize efficiency. The hours are flexible, typically the normal 9-5/6. There is no busy season, however, there are client deadlines (this varies by engagement) so sometimes that requires working late. The position is travel intensive. Typical schedule will be flying to the client on Monday, leave Thursday, and work from home on Friday. There are people I know who work from home all the time if not at the client and that's okay as long as you do your work. We are hiring for seniors, managers, and senior managers. The pay is competitive so maybe you can negotiate for a salary within your desired range.

I use to work in audit for a mid size firm and did not have a pleasant experience. I was fortunate to get this position and to make the switch over to tax and I am glad I did. This is not a typical tax position so you are not filing returns. We spend a lot of time meeting with clients and discussing with them what their current tax processes are and the improvements to make for future filings.

Is this something you (or any one else) would be interested in?

[Regulator17]

@2BeaCPA Where do I sign up? lol

There is no room for doubt.

[fuzyfro89]

A dome:

I completely empathize with that. It's now 3-4 years into the “recovery” but most of that had been seen in earnings, while inflation (which included wages) has severely lagged.

Plenty of articles have written about the “lost generation” which will leave a scar on your career, and unfortunately I see that now with some of my close personal friends. However, an excuse, even a legitimate one, doesn't help you. It's a rough market out there, and staying current on your skills and matching what's in demand is important.

I tend to be more blunt than others, but I don't want to have any of my message missed through sugar costing it.

It's a wildly competitive market out there, and while improved from 2009, still hard to be mobile and expand your skills. Employers are still in the drivers seat and they know it.

King krown:

If recruiters have not been helpful for the past 8 months, the first thing you need to do is decide what the problem is:

1) your skills/qualifications aren't good enough to get you better (**yes, in the current economy)

2) you are contacting the wrong recruiters, don't have a good enough resume, have a poor first impression, don't know how to network, your city doesn't offer a good fit for your skills, etc.

Likely it'd not all 1 or 2, but judge for yourself where the biggest challenge lied and act accordingly. Also, decide what you are(not) willing to give up (relocation, benefits, salary, etc), and then attack those goals like a jungle cat.

Good luck! Nothing brings success like persistence (and also adaptation).

[Anonymous]

And we are all grateful for your “empathy” and for deeming us worthy of your “message”, O Great frosephina…

[fuzyfro89]

A come: thanks, because I really want gratitude from a mostly anonymous Internet forum.

I would welcome more helpful feedback for the poster…

[Author]

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