[mrimkhan]

Hi all,

I’m a senior auditor at a big 4 and a CPA already I am planning on sticking in the firm until I hate it (far from it right now, thank God) and am trying to consider where to go after that (if need be).I want to add a level of expertise to my background, to give me more versatility. I don’t want to be a A/P clerk if I leave auditing, so I want to have as many options open if I don’t like anything strictly financial accounting related. Long story short, here are some options for me. Any advice from your own experience or general knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

SAP: I know its not really in the same field, but I think its the way of the future of businesses and can probably be very useful to a midsize company if I understand both the technology and Financials that run their reporting.

CFA: Not in Financial services, but thinking it has a lot of potential if I get my foot in the right door.

IT Audit: If I want to be an auditor for life might come in handy.

Software Recognition: Any ideas outside of working in the field and reading guidance? Its the way of the future.

Any other ideas? I’m open to them.

Thanks guys

[Mayo]

SAP: Is this a certification? Never heard of it.

CFA: IMO, this is the Mount Everest of Certifications in the business world. How it compares to the CPA is apparently a controversial topic here, so I'll just advise you to do a search on these forums. It's been discussed at length in terms of difficulty, opportunities (big 4 and otherwise), etc.

In my own personal opinion, passing anything other than level I as a Big 4 Senior is a Herculean task. But the first exam can be passed by pure memorization. Do that and you might be able to get your foot in the door in the Due Diligence service line of your firm (assuming you have good ratings and there are openings). It's definitely respected there.

Other uses include Valuation (also in the big 4, but not sure if you could go straight from audit), Equity Research, Security Analysis, PE analyst (generic term for someone who can create/modify/interpret DCF models well in the context of the firm's investments), Equity Research, and Portfolio Management.

As you know, since 2008, many Finance Jobs have evaporated, so it'd be a difficult transition into any major firm. Also, Corp Finance managers might find it impressive or they might not. From the people I've talked to, the ones who have taken the exam really give you kudos if you've passed any level. However, in past threads some people involved in FP&A thought the certification is not really all that related to what they do. So I guess it's a toss up on how much that would help in Corp Finance.

IT Audit: In demand for sure. From people I've talked to, it's in demand in Internal Audit a lot. It's hard to find someone with an IT Audit and a traditional audit background. You either see one or the other. Just be aware that it seems to me that it'd be hard to get away from the IT aspect as you progress in your career if you wanted to do other things.

Software Recognition: Other than being a Revenue Recognition specialist in Industry? Don't really know.

Here's an alternative you didn't mention: Data retrieval/manipulation. Specifically the ability to use ACL proficiently. Seen jobs asking for it in Internal Audit. As companies collect more and more data on their customers and their operations, I see it becoming a growing niche. I think this might be related to your SAP point earlier.

Also, Special Projects for Financial Reporting. I know someone who has this job right now (they came in after being an audit Sr. Manager) in industry. She says she likes it. Like audit, she has a team she works with, and the projects are different every time. They're also interesting and complex enough to not be boring. Although there are some time crunches, she says it's basically a 45 hour week for the majority of the time.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[mrimkhan]

Wow,

Thank you for that wonderful response Mayo. Really really appreciate you taking out the time to give me the advice you gave = ). I agree with all your points, and actually I am part of my firms roll out of CDA's (Certified Data Analysts), as the firm is really making a jump to use ACL. I took a 3 day intensive in ACL last month and hope to become certified. I never heard about the special projects for Financial Reporting role, but it sounds pretty interesting. I will look into it further.

Thank you again for the really nice reply!

[neoptolemus412]

SAP: Really wouldn't get into six sigma or SAP type certifications unless you are working in industry for a fortune 500 company & can leverage the training along with gaining experience. Audit doesn't really translate too well to this certification & any company looking for talent values experience over a certification any day.

CFA: wallstreetoasis & mergers&acquisitions are two forums/advice sites that give you an understanding of what the CFA can/won't do for your career. In all honesty, the main problem no one brings up when thinking of the CFA as a big 4 auditor is the 48 months experience. 90% of audit jobs won't count towards that requirement. You might get by if you audit Financial Services firms (Asset Management, broker dealers, ect.), but most likely that won't cut it b/c it has to be an analyst type role. Pricing funds, recalcing dividends/interest, and other audit tasks do not cut the mustard to performing DCFs, creating models, and valuing companies as a whole on the dtd.

Also, it's extremely difficult to segue from audit to front office analysts’ job. A back office job is not what people want when pursuing CFAs. 99% are looking for big ticket trader/analyst/broker gigs that pay the six figure salaries. Thus, you most likely need to make 2 or 3 job switches to get that position if you come from audit. Trust me, I know countless back office guys with CFAs that will never make the transition. It's very rare to go from audit to any type of analyst/trader/sales job as they're very different skill sets. You can try to transfer to TS or transfer pricing or consulting and then segues to private industry. However, this is still a crapshoot as well b/c it’s all about timing and a spot opening at the firm. So it's realistically a 5 to 7 year process to get the CFA experience requirement & that's if you pass all 3 parts during the job transitions.

I won't go into the exam as there's more than enough info out there. However, I will say the exam is probably 3 to 4 times the amount of study time than one puts into the CPA exam & much more difficult. Lastly, for someone not working in FS in any capacity, it's probably best to transfer or do a rotation in one of the aforementioned areas before jumping into the industry. It's hyper competitive and Big 4 audit hurts more than it helps.

Pros of CFA: Really means something in certain areas of the FS industry and can set you apart from others trying to break in. Shows you are smart and can put in the time to understand complex financial concepts. May lead to better opportunities down the road in FS, but won't get you a job right away. Overall, it's a sign that you are smarter than the average person in FS and kinda expected if you want to get to a certain level as a PM or in asset management.

Cons of CFA: Really only means something in the FS industry and means didly in most private sector jobs. Most industry executives do not value the certification because it's investment specific and doesn't relate to their industry. The time/money invested cannot be made up and the payoff is very uncertain. Overall, it only works if you network and make multiple career jumps to ensure the CFA is a logical part of your career path.

IT Audit: This is another area that might help, if you're truly interested in staying in audit. Your firm may pay for some of the certification. Depending upon your expertise, you could transfer to private industry IA more easily b/c an IT audit background is still very unique. However, this is a narrow certification that puts you in a certain niche in auditing that one should really enjoy before committing. Otherwise, it could be tough to find jobs that relate outside of auditing.

Here's a few basic certifications that you didn't mention that are viable opportunities.

CMA (Certified Managerial Accountant) – helpful in industry and respected as well. It is not as well known as the CPA, but could help you stay in more of an operations roll than doing IA, budgeting, or corporate accting.

CIA (Certified Internal Auditor) – This coupled with a CPA could lead to a very lucrative career path in internal audit for a mid-size or fortune 500 company. Not too many of these jobs out there, but it's easier to break in with Big 4 experience/CPA behind you. You'll see tons of Big 4 audit in these positions.

CFP (Certified Financial Planner) – probably the easiest one to get on this list. This is if you're interested in managing other people's money on a more personal basis. Can be a good job where you start your own business. CFA/CPA/CFP (or any combo of the 2) is rare and would really set one apart from the competition. Totally different than audit and much more sales focused.

Overall, you should figure out through linkedin, talking to others, and online research what you want your next steps to be. Planning on sticking with a firm until you hate it is asinine. It's very easy to do research to understand what jobs you do/don't want as your next steps. I came at you hard on the CFA b/c every tom, dick, and harry throws that out there even though they haven't worked a day in FS or understand what that certification actually can/can't do for them. Formulate a plan and utilize your resources to have a firm either pay/reimburse you to learn. If that's not possible, then pick the certifications that you are certain will aid you down the road rather than haphazardly investing in something that everyone says is a great investment (read law school or cfa) that will cost you time/money.

[Mayo]

neoptolemus412, awesome post.

The only thing I would add is that Analystforum is also a great source for CFA info. Wallstreetoasis and Mergers&Acquisitions will sometimes bash people asking about the CFA for the reasons neoptolemus412 mentioned. In other words, everyone thinks it’s their golden ticket into Finance. But honestly, any questions you may have on the CFA have been probably covered on those three boards ad naseum.

I’m still pretty high on the CFA as a signaling device. It’s cheaper than an MBA, you can finish it while you work, exams don’t expire, and passing Level I is enough to get a little bit of attention and/or have people look at you as something other than “just an accounting” guy. That being said, when you get to Level III, it’s mostly all Investments and Portfolio Management related. So it really loses its value in terms of applying it to non FS industries

However, I’d argue that Level I and II are still very useful knowledge. Don’t forget, even non FS companies have Derivatives and Investment portfolios. The background knowledge you gain will definitely help in just understanding those areas better.

It’s very specific though, so just keep that in mind. A Top 10-25 MBA would probably be a better value, is easier to complete, and has wider applicability.

Some other positions to consider:

Consulting: Not unheard of, just make sure to network. I’ve seen it happen a handful of times. Just don’t expect to go to the Boston Consulting Group or whatever. Just expect to do lots of travel and intense hours, depending on the projects.

Investment Banking: I’ve seen one person make the move. Mostly done through networking. All I know about the work is a lot of hours (90 hr weeks from what I hear).

Contract work: In other words, you’ll still be auditing, but it can really pay a lot if you are willing to travel.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[mrimkhan]

Thank you guys for all the advice!

[Author]

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