[Anonymous]

Is it fair that someone with greater credentials and interviewing skills than a minority should lose out at a Big 4 chance simply due to diversity reasons? I feel that this happens a lot, and it specifically has happened to me.

[fuzyfro89]

Were you and the other interviewee (the minority) the only two candidates? How do you know you lost the position to him/her?

[Anonymous]

fuzyfro89: I would rather not get into all the details in a public forum, but basically, yes.

[Anonymous]

To be honest, I dont think your grade in school or what school you come from is a good indicator how a person will perform at big 4.

Some of the best associates I had at big 4, they were all from mid tier schools and they were easy to get along. It was people from big “accounting” schools, I would say about 40-50% of them were hard to coach, complained about making copies/faxing/scanning confirmations etc. I even had a new associate said to me “I passed all my cpa tests, now I can be a senior associate now”, he was 3 months into the job. Needless to say, after 1 busy season, that individual quit the firm lol.

At big 4, the grade is just to filter people out for the interview process. The personality really sets people apart, if I would to work 18 hours/day with someone, I wouldnt want to work with someone who is cocky and thinks every new entry level task is beneath them.

[nicole2035]

i think we can all tell just from the OPs attitude that his ego more than likely reeked when he entered the door. The funny thing about ego, is that it's hard for people with them to pretend to be humble. I mean come on, he walked out an interview assuming the minority had to be worse, and his this grand perfect person who would have beat out anyone.

[How many letters do you need]

Arrogance is a downfall. I just don't understand the value of having a “I was robbed by discrimination” victom mindset. Much like the CPA….You get so much more by putting that energy into figuring out what you could have done better and improving for next time. If you look yourself in the face and truly can't find anything you could have done better than, as mla pointed out, you are missing humility. Go seek tips from a non – bias source

MBA,CMA,CPA, CFF?, ABV?

[Anonymous]

Dude needs to get audited and read the report about him.

[Guti]

*** Edited by Kricket – Just rude!***

FAR-84
AUD-
REG-
BEC-

[pikachu]

Maybe so. But bottom line, focus on things you can control and how you can be better.

FAR: 2/23/14 77 (1 month studying)
AUD: 5/25/14 68
AUD: 7/13/14 72
AUD: 10/12/14 72
I GIVE UP

[mla1169]

Unless you know the person who was Hired and all of the players involved in the decision making process all the speculation in the world is pointless. Could be as trivial as a shared hobby that got the other candidate the nod. Keep doing what you're doing and the right opportunity for you will come up.

Here's the thing-both my undergrad and grad GPA's were above 3.7 as well. I'm a licensed CPA. I've got decades of experience including as a controller. But out of 44 interviews I got only one offer. Why? Who knows. Who cares . Like where I landed and every rejection up that point was just one step closer to success.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[Anonymous]

An observation from my internship at a big 4, and from what I've heard is that the big 4 tends to hire good looking people. I am personally a huge fan of this simply because there were soooo many good looking girls working at my firm and a couple dimes in my internship class. Not sure if that applies to tax though…

[Vlakmir]

There are certain diversity hires – even interns at my Big 4 office that were exclusively diversity hire interns part of some diversity program. Ironically, the “mexican” girl that didn't know crap was a huge B**** and she was white with blonde hair. Funny how that works out.

This makes me feel like they probably don't care about diversity much if their own diversity hires don't seem to need to fit a real diversity profile (ie; home life experiences, cultural exchanges, etc)

I find myself somewhat on the fence about the whole situation. On one hand, I think it is important to include a variety of perspectives in the work place. On the other hand, assuming that someone who is black/asian/hispanic/etc… will represent their own racial group's needs or something seems absurd, presumptive, and an incredibly racist assumption in itself.

I can't imagine they would waste time interviewing you to just go with someone else to fulfill diversity requirements. They wouldn't have wasted time interviewing you.

Big 4 doesn't care about brains. They use GPA as cut-offs for big schools, and they care about producing some regional diversity more than anything else (ie; they could hire pretty much a full year of interns out of just a couple of schools if they wanted, there are enough students. My school sends people to BIG 4 everywhere and I believe it's partially because we are a rural place that is known to pump out some hard workers)

You just said something stupid. Or you interviewed poorly. Or your eye was slightly lower than the other. Or because they flipped a coin.

tl;dr

getting into big 4 is

1. Attitude and Presentation

2. Obvious and thorough preparation (ie; your cover letter is reviewed by teachers and has had multiple revisions, you are a BAP member, you volunteer, you get decent/good grades, etc…)

3. Charm

4. Dumb luck

Once you get an internship, all you have to do is show up kind of on time, don't piss anyone off, and don't fall asleep.

I networked myself into a Big 4 spot by being a BAP member and talking to the recruiters -every- time they came to my school over the course of 3 years and applied to everything I could for all of them. Holding multiple jobs while getting decent grades. Having accounting internship experiences elsewhere (3 internships total including big 4), etc.

I even signed up for the wrong interviews (MIS interviews). recruiter just laughed it off. If you aren't likable with strong soft skills, you will not be forgiven for even the stupidest mistakes while those that can network could practically commit murder and get away with it. If you have never had mock interviews and full dress rehearsals you are doing it wrong.

edit; btw your post makes you sound like you have an ego with entitlement issues. Portraying any sense of entitlement, ego, etc… is the #1 way to not get a job from them.

final edit : I just wanted to add that you shouldn't feel bad, but you need to look at yourself and ask what you can do to improve. The second you walk down the road of “but *insert externality here*, is the reason i failed at whatever” you will come up with one for every failure, and rob yourself of opportunities to learn. Making mistakes, failing, etc… these are opportunities for self review. There really are 2 types of people in the world ; those that let their insecurities and obstacles keep them down in a variety of ways, and those that enjoy the challenge of bettering themselves. Honestly, if I don't pass my first 2 sections of the CPA exam, it's on me. I know I haven't tried as hard as I could have, and I'm taking a risk by giving myself more free time, but we'll see. It's not the test's fault though, even though I will bitch day and night about it 🙂

Trust me, not going Big 4 is not the end of the world. State-wide state accounting firms in my state (very small population state) pay the same take-home when you consider cost of living, with -MUCH- better benefits/an office/ etc….Don't worry man. When you're unemployed in accounting, at least remember that you're unemployed in accounting and not psychology or something useless (no offense intended! jks!)

REG - 92
AUD - 90
BEC - 82
FAR - 82
BISK Review Materials
DONE! /Happydance

[Anonymous]

In situations like this, it's best to not overanalyze it; You win some, you lose some.

[Anonymous]

I'm going to have to agree with @dmead on this one. Maybe the interviewer knew that you weren't the right “fit” for their group and they saved you a lot of pain, heartache and anguish. Remember the employer is looking for someone that want's to stay for a while. Warm bodies might be nice during tax season to handle grunt work, but in the long run, someone they believe is willing to go the distance and stick it out for the long haul is what they are ultimately looking for regardless of qualifications, experience, color, gender, or physical appearance.

[Kemy]

Wow – I agree with everyone's response on this topic so far. Confused, think about this – what if your question was reversed? What if you were the “minority” and your question was:

“Is it fair that a minority with greater credentials and interviewing skills than a non-minority should lose out at a Big 4 chance simply due to prejudice reasons? I feel that this happens a lot, and it specifically has happened to me.”

There are many “minorities” that see things this way. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's nothing but the individual's perception of the situation. I personally see diversity not JUST based on race, but based on gender, culture, age, family background etc… So … would you still feel confused if the diversity criteria this particular firm used was not race, but something else instead? How would you recommend this person to handle the situation?

The truth is stuff happens in life. We discriminate, we prejudge – heck we even do it within our own races. The winners are the ones that get back up, brush it (both actual and perceived incidents) off and keep it moving. You've got greater things to achieve in life!

FAR - 02/24/14 - 86
AUD - 04/03/14 - 88
REG - 05/29/14 - 68 Retook 11/22/14 - 81 I PASSED!!!!!!!!! IM DONE! Thank You Jesus!
BEC - 07/19/14 - 85

[Anonymous]

@Kemy – I like that quote, and I'm going to use it at some point.

You've got greater things to achieve in life!

[Author]

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