[Anonymous]

Short intro – Brand new poster here, only found this site yesterday as I now am preparing for the CPA. I had an undergrad business degree from the mid 2000’s, worked overseas, and recently came back to go into accounting. Enrolled in an MS program last year, went through recruiting season this fall, accepted an offer with a Big 4. The entire experience has been one of the easiest things I’ve ever done. If you asked me what the Big 4 were a year ago, I wouldn’t even know. Difference between public/private accounting..what? Oh, but I did remember what GAAP means after all these years.

Then I found this site. And have been reading posts from each forum non-stop. The different stories, experiences, challenges, everything have made me realize just how..uh..lucky I am? I’ll be honest, I applied to one and only one Big 4 because that’s where I wanted (don’t even ask why lol). I had no accounting experience, no CPA experience, and yet had no issue landing that one position. But I see people on here with years of experience, fresh from school, and even the CPA already finished and they can’t find A job let alone a Big 4 job. From my experience this fall and the experiences of my classmates (who all got Big 4 offers as well, some from multiple), I honestly thought people who wanted a Big 4 job generally got it and people who wanted regional/mid-sized/small got it because that’s what they chose and aimed for. But now it seems clear to me that some people throw their name in every hat and just pray because it’s actually extremely competitive.

I apologize if this comes off as some stealth brag post, it’s honestly not. It’s just reading this site and Going Concern (which I only found a few days ago as well) has given me a totally different perspective on this accounting world. I guess I feel like I’m in for a much wilder ride than I thought I would be, judging from some of the things I’ve read here. It also made me realize how ignorant I was to a lot of this stuff since I am technically a baby in this world. While I knew the Big 4 were the “BIG FOUR,” it never seemed like an impossible task for any eager individual. Not exactly like being a developer and getting a job at Google.. or maybe it is? I guess I’ll find out when I eventually begin.

Has anyone else who was fairly new to the accounting scene had a similar experience? A sudden epiphany?

Anyway, as I’ll be beginning in the fall I’ll be aiming to pass all of the CPA before then. I look forward to using this site and others in helping me with that. Also, if I was a bit vague with some of my info it was intentional. Things get back to you from online so I’d rather stay as ninja-like as possible.

[Anonymous]

@mod – Sorry if I worded it strangely, but I wrote mid 2000's, so about half of 13 years, but in a completely different industry. However, I'm also somewhat of an investor so the truth is it's not my sole income. I'll put it this way, while the salary certainly didn't wow me from the perspective of what I've seen, it wowed me for how much it was for someone with no experience in this specific industry. From what I've read here it's not uncommon for 22 year old fresh graduates to get 50-60k depending on the market. That's still pretty high for a new graduate considering the average American income is about 50. And a fresh accountant gets that from the start? I don't see how that's peanuts. Perhaps compared to what you could be making in the future, sure. But you don't have to become a partner to make a respectable salary, right?

[Mayo]

“My issue is that the partners are making their millions off of clients, while paying the entry level accountants peanuts. An economist would call this exploitation.”

An economist would call this appropriate risk-reward. Being a big 4 partner brings risks of lawsuits from investors, being on a bottom of yet another totem pole, increasing pressure from a regulator who won't go away, pricing pressure from mid tier firms. On top of that you have the added pressure of bringing in new business?

Sorry, but I think you're way off base here. In terms of paying their staff peanuts, I also have to disagree with you. While working for a big 4 is stressful, full of BS, etc. it pays huge in experience and reputation. In my opinion it's a mutually beneficial relationship: The firms get relatively bright and hard working labor, while I get the experience I want and the strength of their brand.

Let's face it, one of the big draw of a big 4 candidate is the breadth and amount of experience and skills one gains in such a high stress environment. Take that away and you still have value, but not nearly as much as we have today. If it's not for you then that's ok. But me as well as many colleagues know what we're getting into. Trust me, we can leave at any time.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[Mayo]

“My issue is that the partners are making their millions off of clients, while paying the entry level accountants peanuts. An economist would call this exploitation.”

An economist would call this appropriate risk-reward. Being a big 4 partner brings risks of lawsuits from investors, being on a bottom of yet another totem pole, increasing pressure from a regulator who won't go away, pricing pressure from mid tier firms. On top of that you have the added pressure of bringing in new business?

Sorry, but I think you're way off base here. In terms of paying their staff peanuts, I also have to disagree with you. While working for a big 4 is stressful, full of BS, etc. it pays huge in experience and reputation. In my opinion it's a mutually beneficial relationship: The firms get relatively bright and hard working labor, while I get the experience I want and the strength of their brand.

Let's face it, one of the big draw of a big 4 candidate is the breadth and amount of experience and skills one gains in such a high stress environment. Take that away and you still have value, but not nearly as much as we have today. If it's not for you then that's ok. But me as well as many colleagues know what we're getting into. Trust me, we can leave at any time.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[Anonymous]

Mayo brought up something else that blew my mind from reading here – how commonplace the strategy of jumping ship from Big 4 is. I don't know, in my head I feel like I'm going to be with them for a long time. I don't see why I wouldn't climb the pole and take advantage of building my name in a circle like that. I also worked in a very different work culture overseas, where hopping from one job to another like Americans usually do was frowned upon. It's clearly rubbed off on me.

[Anonymous]

Mayo brought up something else that blew my mind from reading here – how commonplace the strategy of jumping ship from Big 4 is. I don't know, in my head I feel like I'm going to be with them for a long time. I don't see why I wouldn't climb the pole and take advantage of building my name in a circle like that. I also worked in a very different work culture overseas, where hopping from one job to another like Americans usually do was frowned upon. It's clearly rubbed off on me.

[barelystayingsane]

Amen, Mayo.

[barelystayingsane]

Amen, Mayo.

[M.O.D.]

@ mayo

I understand the dynamics you describe, but I was taught to question authority, the status quo. And this includes not just the CPA firms and their internal environment that you describe, but also their external environment such as investors, regulators, Congress, etc. I also like question the culture of business itself.

Some things you describe like “value”, “brand”, “risk-reward”, “lawsuits”, as pertaining to auditing and attestation, or tax returns for that matter, do not square with my common sense, or with common sense in general as to how the world of accounting and business should work.

So I am weary in entering a business relationship with a situation does does not make sense to me.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[M.O.D.]

@ mayo

I understand the dynamics you describe, but I was taught to question authority, the status quo. And this includes not just the CPA firms and their internal environment that you describe, but also their external environment such as investors, regulators, Congress, etc. I also like question the culture of business itself.

Some things you describe like “value”, “brand”, “risk-reward”, “lawsuits”, as pertaining to auditing and attestation, or tax returns for that matter, do not square with my common sense, or with common sense in general as to how the world of accounting and business should work.

So I am weary in entering a business relationship with a situation does does not make sense to me.

BA Mathematics, UC Berkeley
Certificates in CPA and EA preparation, College of San Mateo
CMA I 420, II 470
FAR 91, AUD Feb 2015 (Gleim self-study)

[Mayo]

@OP, “something else that blew my mind from reading here – how commonplace the strategy of jumping ship from Big 4 is. I don't know, in my head I feel like I'm going to be with them for a long time.”

Well many of us see the Big 4 as a training/proving ground that will lead to a variety of different opportunities. Yes, staying at your big 4 is done and can lead to its own value. But the lifestyle can be grueling for many, and work/life balance becomes more and more important the longer you stay in. It's great work, and I love it during “normal” work weeks. But after 3 months of 60 hour weeks during non-busy season months, it really wears on you. Throw in a spouse and a family, and it starts to get pretty untenable for a long term situation.

@MOD, “I was taught to question authority, the status quo. And this includes not just the CPA firms and their internal environment that you describe, but also their external environment such as investors, regulators, Congress, etc. I also like question the culture of business itself”

That's fine, and I totally agree that authority shouldn't be taken at face value just because. So far I'm tracking with what you're saying, but then I read..

“Some things you describe like “value”, “brand”, “risk-reward”, “lawsuits”, as pertaining to auditing and attestation, or tax returns for that matter, do not square with my common sense, or with common sense in general as to how the world of accounting and business should work.”

…and I just shake my head. Risk/reward, lawsuits, brand, etc. are ALL factors in ANY business environment. So it's hard for me to see the angle you're coming from. At the end of the day it might just be a disagreement on how we view the role of business and it's relationship with its workers.

Going back to your previous mention of “exploitation”, I noticed you referred to it in a negative connotation. On the other hand, I view it on a positive connotation: In which a business can extract the most value from its available resources in order to maximize their returns. I mean, to me this is business 101 and makes total sense. At the same time, in order to provide said value, employees must be compensated enough, while considering the context of a competitve environment. So for me, the fact that Big 4 employees continue to flock to these firms, despite volumous bitching of which I am definitely guilty of, tells me that the balance of compensation is still enough to fill the openings needed at those firms.

Long story short: Let's just agree to disagree here when it comes to our opinions on whether or not big 4 employees are being taken advantage of. But let's at least agree that our eyes are wide open when we sign on the dotted line.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[Mayo]

@OP, “something else that blew my mind from reading here – how commonplace the strategy of jumping ship from Big 4 is. I don't know, in my head I feel like I'm going to be with them for a long time.”

Well many of us see the Big 4 as a training/proving ground that will lead to a variety of different opportunities. Yes, staying at your big 4 is done and can lead to its own value. But the lifestyle can be grueling for many, and work/life balance becomes more and more important the longer you stay in. It's great work, and I love it during “normal” work weeks. But after 3 months of 60 hour weeks during non-busy season months, it really wears on you. Throw in a spouse and a family, and it starts to get pretty untenable for a long term situation.

@MOD, “I was taught to question authority, the status quo. And this includes not just the CPA firms and their internal environment that you describe, but also their external environment such as investors, regulators, Congress, etc. I also like question the culture of business itself”

That's fine, and I totally agree that authority shouldn't be taken at face value just because. So far I'm tracking with what you're saying, but then I read..

“Some things you describe like “value”, “brand”, “risk-reward”, “lawsuits”, as pertaining to auditing and attestation, or tax returns for that matter, do not square with my common sense, or with common sense in general as to how the world of accounting and business should work.”

…and I just shake my head. Risk/reward, lawsuits, brand, etc. are ALL factors in ANY business environment. So it's hard for me to see the angle you're coming from. At the end of the day it might just be a disagreement on how we view the role of business and it's relationship with its workers.

Going back to your previous mention of “exploitation”, I noticed you referred to it in a negative connotation. On the other hand, I view it on a positive connotation: In which a business can extract the most value from its available resources in order to maximize their returns. I mean, to me this is business 101 and makes total sense. At the same time, in order to provide said value, employees must be compensated enough, while considering the context of a competitve environment. So for me, the fact that Big 4 employees continue to flock to these firms, despite volumous bitching of which I am definitely guilty of, tells me that the balance of compensation is still enough to fill the openings needed at those firms.

Long story short: Let's just agree to disagree here when it comes to our opinions on whether or not big 4 employees are being taken advantage of. But let's at least agree that our eyes are wide open when we sign on the dotted line.

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[Anonymous]

I agree with Mayo.

I'll be starting at a big 4 next month. I figure it's easier to start bigger and move to smaller than start smaller and go to bigger. And I like the fact that everyone is around my age and it will be challenging. No pain, no gain. haha

[Anonymous]

I agree with Mayo.

I'll be starting at a big 4 next month. I figure it's easier to start bigger and move to smaller than start smaller and go to bigger. And I like the fact that everyone is around my age and it will be challenging. No pain, no gain. haha

[wowurrcool]

Agree with Mayo all the way. Well said.

FAR - 87 (7/19/13)
BEC - 82 (8/29/13)
REG - 86 (10/18/13)
AUD - 91 (12/06/13)

Becker. Licensed VA CPA 12/31/13

[wowurrcool]

Agree with Mayo all the way. Well said.

FAR - 87 (7/19/13)
BEC - 82 (8/29/13)
REG - 86 (10/18/13)
AUD - 91 (12/06/13)

Becker. Licensed VA CPA 12/31/13

[Author]

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