[Amanda1234]

Hello everyone, I am thinking to go to big firms and I am kind of obsessed with big 4 for its high profile clients and national name recognition. I have some questions. Any advice will be deeply appreciated!

I am doing audit at a small CPA firm (around 150 employees), finished 2nd busy season and passed all CPA exams. With the current firm, even my boss is very satisfied with my performance, he is not likely to promote me to senior until I finish 3rd busy season, which is next year. Promoting to senior after three years is like a routine at this firm. But I feel I’ve been taking more responsibilities (such as be in charge of small engagements, preparing concurring review and reporting) than a second year would normally takes. I wonder if I should consider go to big 4 after get promoted so that I may get hired as a senior. If I apply audit in big 4 now, which level will they put me in? A1, A2 or senior. Or which position should I apply? If I leave this firm and go to big 4, assuming still in audit, it does not mean I need to start over as first year associates, right?

I also wonder how I should approach. I am thinking to reach out couple of my contacts in big 4. Should I reach out at least senior? Or manager? How open are they to people, like me, approaching for possible referring opportunity?

[shawn in VA]

I currently work at a small CPA firm (50 ppl). I used to work at a much bigger/ firm (not big 4 but in top 10) and well let me tell you…get ready to sleep in your car during busy season and say goodbye to your family/friends.

work comes first in these types of firms, so if you want to be there slave go for it. BTW money is not better at a bigger firm and I live/work in a very high COL area (wash DC).

I have the best of both worlds…work/life balance and decent pay.

Best of luck to you.

[shawn in VA]

also you will have to “start over” and prove to them you can be a senior. I would be shocked if they hired you at senior with 2 years experience. If you don't prove yourself within 1 busy season well then your headed to the unemployment line b/c they will do that kinda stuff if you don't meet their goals.

[Anonymous]

I would stay away from big four. Stay where you are right now

[CPAwannab]

If you like working 50-70 hours a week and don't have family commitments I would say go for it. Big 4 are brutal!
I have two kids and I enjoy working 32 hours a week and be a soccer mom.

[zchen42]

I recently applied for a tax senior position at one of the big 4. The job only requires bachelor degree and 18 months federal and state tax experience, not even mention CPA. I have two years relevant experience with CPA. I even revise my resume to meet their specific experience requirement. Still no interview and get rejected.

[Amanda1234]

@shawn in VA Thank you for your reply. I don't mind work long hours at this point of my life. I want to earn some experience before I get families and leave…..Anyways, thank you.

[Amanda1234]

@zchen42 thank you for sharing. I hope you get what you want at the end. Also, I do think networking is very necessary even I am not entirely sure how to approach ….. good luck to you.

[Amanda1234]

@CPAwannab thank you for your reply. It's good that you have a well balanced life now.

[Pete]

I”ve had the opposite experience. I've interned at a larger firm and actually found they worked fewer hours than I did at my last firm (granted this wasn't big 4). They typically worked 60-70 hours/week, which, comparatively, is better than the smaller firms I've heard about (worked at). My old firm would typically pay less than the larger firm while having you work 90+ hours week for a month long. The last 2 weeks of tax season, the hours would jump to about 110 hours/week.

In the fall, the hours would jump to 60-70 hours/week for the extension deadline. Again, this was for less pay than most of the larger firms. Further, I basically had no benefits at the smaller firm. I had a $7,000 deductible at the old firm. BTW, this firm had 15 people.

B=84 This exam was such a b**** that I thought I failed-don't know how these things work
A=76 Slacker I am, I'll happily take it
R=81 I LOVE taxes
F=80 I don't wanna get banned for an expletive I'm thinking with "yea" proceeding it

[Son]

Amanda1234, take advice from people who don't have first-hand Big4 experience with a grain of salt. I often find they base their opinions on stories told by former disgruntled employees that don't really show the whole picture.

Here's my take on your questions (as far as background goes – I'm a tax manager with one of Big4s):
1. Busy season is brutal in both audit and tax. Post-busy season hours tend to be very reasonable (people often come at 9 and leave at 5). If you can deal with 50-70 hour weeks for a few months a year I'd go for it. Also, that fluctuation very much depends on the specific group and office, there are some that are moderately busy throughout the year or where schedules fluctuate based on projects.
2. It is very unlikely you will be hired as a senior. Likely a level equivalent to a second year staff.
3. Apply for an experienced hire position.
4. Level of the person you're contacting matters but only to some extent. Ideally, you'd want to know a partner, but even if you connect with a senior who will agree to meet for a cup of coffee, talk about her experience with you and then pass your resume to their boss it's also great. My advice is to approach every person you know.
5. People tend to be very open when it comes to talking about career opportunities – Big4 is always hungry for great talent, especially experienced folks. Just keep in mind that your informal cup of coffee meeting is actually your first interview.

AUD - passed
REG - passed
BEC - passed
FAR - passed

[zchen42]

@Son, can you advise how recruiters filter resume. Also, tax is kind of broad. I work on business tax, but if I wanna work on International tax, what can I behave during the interview? Also, the industry seems to matter too. Sometimes recruiters ask me how many of my clients are from a specific industry. Does it really matter?

[Amanda1234]

@Ratfus thank you for sharing your experience. I feel you! I do feel smaller firms pay less and ask people to work more. I guess it still depends. But you mentioned one of my concerns. Thank you!

[Amanda1234]

@Son Thank you for your very honest and thorough reply! I really appreciate your advice! You cannot imaging how important it is to me! Even with my current firm, I work longer hours than I do during post-season and I am totally fine with it. I am mentally and physically ready to join to big 4 as long as I get an opportunity. I really don't mind to work long hours as long as I get an opportunity to learn something! Again, thank you. I'll start reaching out my contacts!

[Anonymous]

@amanda1234 I'm at a big four firm in Washington DC. As a tip, I know every big four firm has that one office that is understaffed and is aggressively looking for hires. A year ago it was Baltimore MD at my firm and somewhat tax everywhere. If you emphasize you want big four period, and can be flexible it should help a ton…heck recruiters may love you for it.

I can speak to my lifestyle specifically. I left work at 2pm today. I left at 3pm earlier this week. 6pm the rest. I get in at 9am across the year. Hours have ebs and flows. My record billing this year was 73 hours over a trailing 7 day period. In my opinion, the hours are not bad at all. Average working hours probably 50 a week. The distribution of those hours is likely 40 hours half the time. 50 a quarter. 60 hours 20 percent. And 70 5 percent of the time. It ramps up slowly. Doesn't really matter as traffic is so bad in town a 40 hour week won't get you home in time for anything. It won't feel bad. You're not missing out. I worked weekends only during those 70s, at home, the 60s left me with 3/4ths of my weekend open. I have no complaints about the hours.

I love my clients tremendously. In fact, my 73 hour work week could have gone much higher and I wouldn't have felt it. It felt less than most 50 hour weeks.

Speaking on a transfer, in my hiring class, there was a guy who came from a top 20 regional firm. He was a 1st senior associate at the firm when he left; he was demoted to 2nd or 3rd year associate. It was basically stated – if you do well you'll be promoted, if a little development is needed you'll take another year. Up front, you won't be a senior coming in. You'll be an experienced associate hire.

As an idea, I'd likely recommend trying to transfer now. Kindly reach out to recruiters. You can LinkedIn them. Google “XYZ firm recruiter ABC town LinkedIn” you'll find them. Be polite. Message several different ones. Message some people you have something in common with – nobody will judge you for being goal-oriented. If you have to wait until you make senior, there's no loss..

Best of luck. You can do it.

[Son]

[@Son, can you advise how recruiters filter resume. Also, tax is kind of broad. I work on business tax, but if I wanna work on International tax, what can I behave during the interview? Also, the industry seems to matter too. Sometimes recruiters ask me how many of my clients are from a specific industry. Does it really matter?]

1. Recruiters will likely be looking for someone with a similar experience in public, within the same business line, preferably with a prestigious public firm or a large corporation. CPA is a plus (or at the very least some exams passed); GPA will matter a lot as well.
2. I frankly don't see you starting as anything other than an entry-level staff in international if you don't have any prior experience. Maybe second-year staff if your business tax experience is relevant to what you're expected to handle at a Big4.
3. Industry might matter depending on the city. In Texas oil is big, finance might be important for NY etc. (mostly because of specific laws and regulations applicable to those industries). If you have industry-specific experience highlight it as it might be beneficial. That being said, if you're looking for an entry-level position, it doesn't matter quite as much.
4. I remember you asking about the M&A group before. Make sure you understand what either international tax or M&A group does before you apply. Doesn't earn you many points if you can't clearly explain what attracts you to a specific group during an interview.

AUD - passed
REG - passed
BEC - passed
FAR - passed

[Author]

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