[PP]

Hi All,
A little bit of myself! I’m currently a master of accounting student at one of top business schools in my area. During this fall recruiting, 3 out of the Big 4 firms denied to give me interviews even though I went to most of their social events and networked hard. I also maintain relative high GPA for the first half of the master program (3.9), joined BAP, and have couple internships with local firms under my belt. However, things aren’t going to the direction that I was expected. I couldn’t even land a single interview with those top firms. I know it’s super competitive in my area as the big 4 offices here are smaller and have limited opening positions so I put my location preferences to bigger cities like SF/ Seattle but there’s still no hope. I was wondering why (may be b/c of my undergraduate GPA -3.4) but there’s no time to look back. I’m moving forward with my plan B, which focuses on top regional firms in Seattle/SF/Los Angeles area. Does anyone have any tips to apply for regional firms that’s out of state? most of the firms that i applied for don’t have office in my current location. I tried contact the recruiters there but not a single one of them respond back to me. Also does anyone have experience to work at a smaller firms later move up to big 4? is it possible?

[Painted_Jeans]

Very interesting discussion here guys 🙂
Thought I might add my 10 cents.. I applied to Big 4 multiple times and all 4 of them lol got internship offer but had to opt out and take a full time offer with a very tiny firm, then went to little bigger firm and still applied and applied to Big 4.. talked to them on the phone and didnt hear back, others didnt select my resume over and over…… until they did. I did not have ANY connections and my parents have a very basic idea to what these firms do (that's to the comments above in reference to “have to know someone inside or have mom and dad work there”), so going further i got a call from recruiter and then partner and then different recruiter and got an offer. I applied for experienced (second yr staff) which got downgraded to just staff but there wasnt a problem at all since i was gonna take the intern if they offered since i missed that opportunity before.. ANYWAY, I think all of us know that working at big firm cannot be substituted for anything IF you want to build a great career. There is a million of other options, better pay, less hours, etc. so to each their own. I could only dream about working for the firm that offered me a job. I had plan B, C, D and would be ok with that if A didnt work out, but it did and it feels awesome.

@PP KEEP TRYING! Keep knocking on those big doors, they'll open if you are persistent enough!

[CrammingWithKK]

As someone who currently works at Big 4- don't stress it. It is just a name and trust me- there is nothing glorious at Big 4. Although I have received unmatched experience dealing with some awesome clients – my offers and benefits other places were much better. Took the pay downgrade for the name so we will see how that plays in the future. I had very strong internship experience, graduated Summa Cum Laude, and barely went to social events.

[jombe]

I work at a 150+ public accounting firm w/ only one office and I've seen one supervisor get accepted to PwC and one associate get accepted to KPMG just this year.
A lot of associates, including myself, also rec'd linkedin messages from PwC and KPMG corporate recruiters throughout the year, but none of us wanted to put in 80 – 100 hours a week during busy season.
I am considering switching to private at the moment, but I have a call w/ PwC's hiring Partner toward end of this week just to see what they would offer.
I am located in Denver FYI.

FAR - 94 (10/4/15), Local Prep Online Lectures, BISK & NINJA MCQ
AUD - 99 (1/19/16), Local Prep Online Lectures, BISK & NINJA MCQ
REG - 96 (4/19/16), Local Prep Online Lectures, BISK & NINJA MCQ
BEC - 91 (7/19/16), Local Prep Online Lectures, BISK & NINJA MCQ

581 days of listening to lectures, reading texts & 10,000+ MCQs...

[jeff]

There will be plenty of open doors for you elsewhere … Big 4 is a nice feather in the cap if you jump to industry, but it's all about what you do once you get to industry. I've seen people out-work and out-advance their Big 4 peers.

[ultrarunner]

Like someone mentioned before, big 4 is just a name and somehow misrepresented. Many people in this form said big 4 never hires older people, but that's not true at all. I am probably one of the oldest people who got hired by big 4, but I don't think I was the oldest one. Anyway, my point is that as long as you have a goal and work hard, you will eventually get it. Big 4 (and many good public accounting firms in that regard) have a shortage of experienced staffs and aggressively go after people working in small to midsize firms. Once you get into public accounting firm in any size, you will have a good chance to get into big 4 or any other great public accounting firms. All the best.

FAR 72,67,79 (Roger+Wiley test bank)11/15
AUD 80 (Roger)10/15
BEC 80 (Roger)4/16
REG 63,78 (Roger+Ninja MCQs)5/16

[Iceman]

I agree with Ohio. Why do you want Big 4? I have always worked in industry and now I'm a controller for a manufacturer making well into 6 figures. With my career path I could easily go for Finance Director or possibly CFO if I wanted to. I would not at all want to go into the Big 4 (or even regional firm) culture from here.

[Starved_Wolf]

Sorry for piggybacking!! But im truly curious..
@DM- how did you get in with a 2.7 gpa? Even if you got through to interview with them, dont they have minimum gpa requirements? Also what is a ppmd?

[DM]

@Starved_Wolf, a PPMD is reference to partner, principal or managing director. The GPA thresholds are for pre-screening interviews. I skipped that step when I connected with the NY office head partner, who recommended me to HR and HR set up the interview (timing was perfect as my Big 4 was hiring entry-level, staff 1s); Big 4 is controlled by PPMDs, HR cannot override a PPMDs instructions. I aced the interview and then was instructed to complete the application, where I uploaded my transcripts. My GPA never came up in interviews or anything else. A positive referral from a PPMD will land a CPA candidate an interview 10 out of 10 times. I obviously couldn't find a good job out of college, so I had to stay an extra year for NYS CPA education requirements and used that time to focus my time and energy on finding what I wanted and how to get it. The same process happened in my most recent hire. I knew the bank I wanted to work for in the exact department. I connected with the director, talked a few times, networked two referrals, got my resume in, landed interview, completed the application, given offer, then piss test. LinkedIn is by far the best way to find a job. Get the premium version if you are job hunting.
I post on this site because I was ignorant and immature in college. I really want to help people find their ways to success in accounting. I almost failed miserably. Should be dead honestly. But I assure you that I know Big4 inside and out.

[DM]

Here is some juice on work processes for medium-large engagements in Big 4; Most of substantive work is sent to Big 4 divisions in India. Each engagement team uses India differently, some teams love India and some teams hate India (competency is the driving factor). It is really just cheap labor, and my Big 4 required 20% of total hours to be budgeted from India. Additionally, Big 4 participate in GDP programs (Global Development Programs), where they send seniors/managers at foreign affiliate to USA. Another form of cheap labor and lack of US seniors/managers staying with the firm. Audit work and technology are merging. Audit programs and software has been designed to do a lot of work for you (data analytics, standardized reporting, use of service orgs, confirmation control, document readers, etc.). My team put significantly more hours in the years my engagements were up for internal inspection or PCAOB inspection. Audit partners and MDs only care about two things, client continuity and audit fees (especially the audit fees). Big 4 performance bonus doesn't really kick in until 2nd year senior level. The comp, in NYC, is 20 percent below market. So you are taking the name over comp. If you don't eat hours, the partner just moves the hours around the budget anyway. So eat your hours, regardless, and tell everyone that you don't. Don't be afraid of long hours! You will find that audit managers and seniors are very caring about their staff, as long as work is getting done. If deadlines aren't met, then be prepared for hell on earth with upset clients and engagement management. There are 12/31 fiscal YE and 3/31 fiscal YE, so you can be in busy season from January till June, depending on industry coverage.

[DM]

Another post lol (I am not busy today). I am in process of trying to get into front office banking (corporate and investment banking) from my CPA background and with 2.7 GPA LMAO. I tried to transfer into advisory transactional services (M&A and cap markets) at my Big 4, but was told to wait another year or two till manager. I was top 5 performer in my audit senior class. I told my firm that answer wasn't good enough and I am evaluating my options. So I looked for another job, the one I am in now. I tried to negotiate with my Big 4 for higher salary and transfer ops to match my offer, but they said stay at your current role no bump in salary or go. So I left. My point is that Big 4 will not do much to retain top talent. They may match an offer for Director or above, but I have seen high performing managers get snubbed. In May and September, there are many farewell emails from your colleagues and odd rumors about people leaving.
Anyway, my journey to front office banking is underway. I have been active on LinkedIn, but CPAs will RARELY get interview as investment banking analyst (level 1), even at small/medium boutique firms. So, I wont solely rely on LinkedIn. I contacted my firms front office banking recruiter two weeks ago and let him know my interest. Turns out he can get me an interview for next fall start with a high performance eval this coming March. The interview for front office banking consists of a 4-6 hour super day, including technical analysis and formal interviews. My interview for Big 4 consisted of a 5 minute phone screen with HR to set up interview and 30 minutes with a tenured Partner where we talked golf the whole time.

[DM]

Big 4 career paths to private;

– Leave after 1-2 years in Big 4 will get you back office financial reporting, Financial Planning & Analysis (FP&A). From there people will bounce around firms/departments until they reach a senior position, such as VP or director. Controller or CFO is a long-shot and will take a lot of tenure and luck. Poor performers will go to AR/AP/GA teams. High performers will work closer to the CFO/controller. A very small percentage of people will go to MBA or transfer internal to another Big 4 service (i.e., advisory, risk, forensic, etc.). Few may transfer to other big 4/internal for new industry or client exposure. 50-75K salary no bonus up to 5K.
– Leave after 3-7 years in Big 4 will land you VP/Director/Manager role in the same back office functions. There is more growth potential in private when switching at this time because of more project management experience in Big 4. The CFO and Controller will look to these hires as potential replacements. From my experience, this is the most common time to jump because the comp disparity from Big 4 manager to private manager is a mockery. And people settle down in life around this time too. Some people that left Big 4 for private often return to Big 4 because private is slow and not challenging to them. 75-150K salary 10-50% salary bonus. CPA license is required at this level.
– Leave after 7 years, senior managers or directors seek to be hired as Controller or CFO (depending on size of hiring company). But at this point, people stay to become PPMD or start their own CPA firm/fund. Or they become robots that do the same thing over and over busy season after busy season without getting promoted (this happens to many senior managers – shout out to, “this is my last busy season”). 150K+ salary and 50-100%+ salary bonus.

[Recked]

DM, thanks for contributing those posts.
Very interesting to read first hand accounts of the road/path not taken.

[DM]

This is my last post. In reality, Big4 treats everyone as expendable property, except partners. Partners are treated as gods and act like it too. The Big4 talent model is piss poor, and I am sad to say that because I really liked working for my Big4. I valued myself greater than the firm did, so I left with many others thinking the same way. Big4 used to address the turn-over problem by aggressively hiring, but now they are outsourcing to cheaper labor and investing in robust audit technology to standardize audits.
Over the next 5-10 years, I am predicting that Big 4 will change dramatically if regulation stays the same. I think we will see audit practices carved out and separated from the consulting practices. There is growing tension between audit and consulting over business revenue due to independence regulation. I know my Big4 firm in the UK was in serious talks about carving out the audit practice. In 2015, KPMG hired a new woman CEO that had a goal of carving out the US audit practice. Anyway, this is something to keep an eye an as Big 4 looks to boost service line revenues by playing with the independence rules.

[Starved_Wolf]

@DM thank you thank you thank you for this wealth of info! You answered my questions and more! Really appreciate it!

[Author]

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