[Anonymous]

I have passed 3 parts of the exam, have never worked in Accounting, and was thinking about trying to get an Associate job at a Big 4. I turned 40 last year. It sounds like they only hire associates in there 20’s? Is it worth trying to start at a big4 firm?

[mla1169]

I can understand people saying big 4 is a killer job at any age, but I'm rolling on the floor at the notion that it's somehow different for a person over 40. For what it's worth, I kept up a schedule while studying for this exam that would have landed most 20-something's in the hospital. That said. If you've not hit 40 yet, and you don't work in big 4, why speculate on something like that? Plenty of people over 40 have intense jobs. You all act like nobody but big 4 works 70 hour weeks lol!

And dragon fruit I'm not sure who told you most jobs in industry are consistently 40 hours a week, (except maybe some entry level jobs) but very few salaried people 40 hours. My last job was consistently 50+, and month end was more like 60. That's better than 75 for a tax accountant but it was all 12 months not just 2 or 3, and there was no flex time.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[mla1169]

I can understand people saying big 4 is a killer job at any age, but I'm rolling on the floor at the notion that it's somehow different for a person over 40. For what it's worth, I kept up a schedule while studying for this exam that would have landed most 20-something's in the hospital. That said. If you've not hit 40 yet, and you don't work in big 4, why speculate on something like that? Plenty of people over 40 have intense jobs. You all act like nobody but big 4 works 70 hour weeks lol!

And dragon fruit I'm not sure who told you most jobs in industry are consistently 40 hours a week, (except maybe some entry level jobs) but very few salaried people 40 hours. My last job was consistently 50+, and month end was more like 60. That's better than 75 for a tax accountant but it was all 12 months not just 2 or 3, and there was no flex time.

FAR- 77
AUD -49, 71, 84
REG -56,75!
BEC -75

Massachusetts CPA (non reporting) since 3/12.

[jlough]

I've worked in both public and private accounting and I think the one big difference is that there is a lot more flexibility in private accounting (generally).

For example, I'm in private now and I know that we are super busy the first few days of the month, the few days around the 10th business day, the few weeks around quarter end, and most of Jan-Feb. I can plan my schedule around making sure that I have those free to focus on work. Sure, there are days where I get stuck at work, but for the most part, I know what work needs to get done and when and I plan accordingly.

In public, you could be on a job where your manager comes in at 10:30 am, even though the rest of the team got in at 8 am, and he'll expect you to stick around until HE is done with HIS work at 1030 pm (happened to me all the time in public). You could be sitting there with nothing to do, but that's just how it is. OR you could intend to take some vacation time in the summer but HR loads up your schedule with clients for the entire year in March, so you go 9 months before you can even have a day off.

F- 7/13- 84
R- 10/13- 79
A- 11/13- 99
B- 1/14- 86

Licensed in PA- 3/20/2014

This exam ALMOST defeated me back in 2006-2008, but I came back and WON!

[jlough]

I've worked in both public and private accounting and I think the one big difference is that there is a lot more flexibility in private accounting (generally).

For example, I'm in private now and I know that we are super busy the first few days of the month, the few days around the 10th business day, the few weeks around quarter end, and most of Jan-Feb. I can plan my schedule around making sure that I have those free to focus on work. Sure, there are days where I get stuck at work, but for the most part, I know what work needs to get done and when and I plan accordingly.

In public, you could be on a job where your manager comes in at 10:30 am, even though the rest of the team got in at 8 am, and he'll expect you to stick around until HE is done with HIS work at 1030 pm (happened to me all the time in public). You could be sitting there with nothing to do, but that's just how it is. OR you could intend to take some vacation time in the summer but HR loads up your schedule with clients for the entire year in March, so you go 9 months before you can even have a day off.

F- 7/13- 84
R- 10/13- 79
A- 11/13- 99
B- 1/14- 86

Licensed in PA- 3/20/2014

This exam ALMOST defeated me back in 2006-2008, but I came back and WON!

[tough_kitty]

@mla1169: there is an easy explanation – jealousy.

OP: just apply everywhere you can and see what happens. You'll find the right fit for yourself.

Contrary to the popular belief, people with some work experience are able to adjust to long hours better than people right out of college who have zero experience working a full-time job.

FAR: 81 (May 2013)
BEC: 81 (July 2013)
REG: 83 (August 2013)
AUD: 82 (November 2013)
California CPA since 1/30/14

[tough_kitty]

@mla1169: there is an easy explanation – jealousy.

OP: just apply everywhere you can and see what happens. You'll find the right fit for yourself.

Contrary to the popular belief, people with some work experience are able to adjust to long hours better than people right out of college who have zero experience working a full-time job.

FAR: 81 (May 2013)
BEC: 81 (July 2013)
REG: 83 (August 2013)
AUD: 82 (November 2013)
California CPA since 1/30/14

[Anonymous]

@mla, I meant to say as close to 40 hours a week. I used to work for a private industry where my hours varied between 40-50 hrs (which includes month-end for a sr position). The industry where I used to work at is also a non-public company (which may also have better hours). I am not trying to discourage OP from applying at the Big4, but to also expand his options by also applying elsewhere. I used to work in a private industry, and I am now in the Big4. I was comparing both according to my own experience as I also feel that I am close to OP's age.

[Anonymous]

@mla, I meant to say as close to 40 hours a week. I used to work for a private industry where my hours varied between 40-50 hrs (which includes month-end for a sr position). The industry where I used to work at is also a non-public company (which may also have better hours). I am not trying to discourage OP from applying at the Big4, but to also expand his options by also applying elsewhere. I used to work in a private industry, and I am now in the Big4. I was comparing both according to my own experience as I also feel that I am close to OP's age.

[Anonymous]

Can i take the advantage of talking about B4 and ask you a question about getting in? Even though i passed the CPA exam, i have had some problems starting my career (finally landed one, frankly don't see it helping me as a CPA) so for me working for a B4 is great compared to the other alternatives i have. but it seems almost impossible to get even interviewed!!

I'm expecting to get my license in May 2014, Do you think that would help my resume look better?

DONE with all the exams !!!

[Anonymous]

Can i take the advantage of talking about B4 and ask you a question about getting in? Even though i passed the CPA exam, i have had some problems starting my career (finally landed one, frankly don't see it helping me as a CPA) so for me working for a B4 is great compared to the other alternatives i have. but it seems almost impossible to get even interviewed!!

I'm expecting to get my license in May 2014, Do you think that would help my resume look better?

DONE with all the exams !!!

[Mayo]

@OP,

It seems that you are asking two distinct questions:

1. At 40, what are my chances at getting into a Big 4?

2. At 40, is it worth it?

Let's tackle #1 first because there seems to be a lot of questions related to that lately..

For one, one must understand the hiring process of the Big 4, and similarily, large regionals. The firms have three to four main recruiting “pipelines”. The following is based on my own knowledge and experience on recruiting and are general guidelines. It goes without saying that there are always exceptions to the rules.

-For around 90% of new hires the firms will recruit college students early. Traditionally, this has meant targeting Juniors or Seniors who have moderate to high grades, are involved on campus, have personalities that fit with the firm, have previous experience, or any other types of credentials that the firms feel are a good fit. Once these prospects are targeted, the firm recruiting teams make an effort to get to know them, etc. in order to offer them an internship for the following year. Of course, this will vary depending on how highly recruited your school is. For highly recruited schools, the GPA and extracurricular requirements are much lower compared to a lightly recruited school. For lightly recruited schools, the top students are the ones targeted for recruitment.

I think it's important to understand the firms' perspective on internships and recruitment. There seems to be a lot of confusion on why things are done this way. The main reason, to me at least, seems to be because the firms are in an “arms race” for top talent. The best comparison in my opinion is NCAA Fottball. High school kids are recruited and courted early by schools in order to gain a competitive advantage. In fact, as a Big 4 auditor semi-involved in recruiting, I'm already noticing a tendency to target even earlier. My firm at least has organized “leadership summits” that are specifically targeted at sophmore or promising freshman. A main point here is that firm recruiters encourage big 4 employees to help identifiy these students. Rightly so, in my opinion, they believe that top students will most likely know other top students.

After the internship, the firm will extend a full time offer of employment to the student, unless he/she ends up being a terrible fit. From there, the student will graduate amd go work full time in the following fall.

All this to say that….your best bet for any public accounting position for Big 4 or large regionals is through on campus recruiting.

2. HR and the local office firm recruiting team will coordinate in order to do their best to predict the amount of auditors/tax accountants needed. Inevitably, some students will not take internships, will transfer to different offices, or will go to a different company or career altogether.

This will of course leave holes in needed personnel. From my (BOLD)personal(BOLD) experience, this usually leads the firms into filling the positions in the following order:

1a. Reaching out to students that barely missed the second interview cut

1b. Reaching out to interns for potential students they think will fit in withthe firm

1c. Reaching out to professors for potential seniors/graduate students that will fit in with the firm

1d. Reaching out to professors, past interns, newly hired staff, for any referrals for new graduates who will fit in withthe firm.

From there, said person will be interviewed for fit, and offered a position if they think they are a good fit.

3. If the firm is unsuccessful in filling holes for personnel, they will turn to experienced hires. This is actually a two part situation. People with one to three years of public accounting experience (depends on the size of the firm the person is coming from) usually can transfer in as a second year staff. If you have 3+ years! you can transfer in as a senior. If you've worked as a Manager at another firm, the. You can transfer in as a first year Audit Manager, depending on how desperate the firm is.

Now, certain posters have indicated (ohmywhey for one) that certain offices of big 4 firms are reaching out to promising people who work in industry.. I'd bet my first born (I have no kids 😛 ) that this is a recent development and depends on the needs of the particular office. At least for my own office, it's been indicated that industry accountants with zero public experience are not sought after.

So OP, I hope that helps answer question #1, regarding the structure of Big 4 and large regional accounting firms' recruiting. It's less about age and more about fit, personality, and circumstances.

Let us know if you have further questions :D. I'll be posting about #2 later, but my wife wants to watch a movie…so…..I'm out. 🙂

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[Mayo]

@OP,

It seems that you are asking two distinct questions:

1. At 40, what are my chances at getting into a Big 4?

2. At 40, is it worth it?

Let's tackle #1 first because there seems to be a lot of questions related to that lately..

For one, one must understand the hiring process of the Big 4, and similarily, large regionals. The firms have three to four main recruiting “pipelines”. The following is based on my own knowledge and experience on recruiting and are general guidelines. It goes without saying that there are always exceptions to the rules.

-For around 90% of new hires the firms will recruit college students early. Traditionally, this has meant targeting Juniors or Seniors who have moderate to high grades, are involved on campus, have personalities that fit with the firm, have previous experience, or any other types of credentials that the firms feel are a good fit. Once these prospects are targeted, the firm recruiting teams make an effort to get to know them, etc. in order to offer them an internship for the following year. Of course, this will vary depending on how highly recruited your school is. For highly recruited schools, the GPA and extracurricular requirements are much lower compared to a lightly recruited school. For lightly recruited schools, the top students are the ones targeted for recruitment.

I think it's important to understand the firms' perspective on internships and recruitment. There seems to be a lot of confusion on why things are done this way. The main reason, to me at least, seems to be because the firms are in an “arms race” for top talent. The best comparison in my opinion is NCAA Fottball. High school kids are recruited and courted early by schools in order to gain a competitive advantage. In fact, as a Big 4 auditor semi-involved in recruiting, I'm already noticing a tendency to target even earlier. My firm at least has organized “leadership summits” that are specifically targeted at sophmore or promising freshman. A main point here is that firm recruiters encourage big 4 employees to help identifiy these students. Rightly so, in my opinion, they believe that top students will most likely know other top students.

After the internship, the firm will extend a full time offer of employment to the student, unless he/she ends up being a terrible fit. From there, the student will graduate amd go work full time in the following fall.

All this to say that….your best bet for any public accounting position for Big 4 or large regionals is through on campus recruiting.

2. HR and the local office firm recruiting team will coordinate in order to do their best to predict the amount of auditors/tax accountants needed. Inevitably, some students will not take internships, will transfer to different offices, or will go to a different company or career altogether.

This will of course leave holes in needed personnel. From my (BOLD)personal(BOLD) experience, this usually leads the firms into filling the positions in the following order:

1a. Reaching out to students that barely missed the second interview cut

1b. Reaching out to interns for potential students they think will fit in withthe firm

1c. Reaching out to professors for potential seniors/graduate students that will fit in with the firm

1d. Reaching out to professors, past interns, newly hired staff, for any referrals for new graduates who will fit in withthe firm.

From there, said person will be interviewed for fit, and offered a position if they think they are a good fit.

3. If the firm is unsuccessful in filling holes for personnel, they will turn to experienced hires. This is actually a two part situation. People with one to three years of public accounting experience (depends on the size of the firm the person is coming from) usually can transfer in as a second year staff. If you have 3+ years! you can transfer in as a senior. If you've worked as a Manager at another firm, the. You can transfer in as a first year Audit Manager, depending on how desperate the firm is.

Now, certain posters have indicated (ohmywhey for one) that certain offices of big 4 firms are reaching out to promising people who work in industry.. I'd bet my first born (I have no kids 😛 ) that this is a recent development and depends on the needs of the particular office. At least for my own office, it's been indicated that industry accountants with zero public experience are not sought after.

So OP, I hope that helps answer question #1, regarding the structure of Big 4 and large regional accounting firms' recruiting. It's less about age and more about fit, personality, and circumstances.

Let us know if you have further questions :D. I'll be posting about #2 later, but my wife wants to watch a movie…so…..I'm out. 🙂

Mayo, BBA, Macc

[vjr7653]

@OP,

I am 46 and will be starting at Big4 in Sept. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to start at a B4 and are able to go through the interview process, then by all means do so. Don't let anyone tell you about the long hours for low pay BS. That will most likely be the case for your first few years anywhere, public or private, and I have worked in both. Your experience at B4 depends entirely on the engagement team you are assigned to. In my case, when I interned I had a great group of people who specifically asked for me to be on their team when I got hired full time. Other students who interned with me had a less desirable experience, for a variety of reasons. You won't know until you try it for yourself (not based on other people's experiences or hearsay)

In my private experience, I interned at a fortune 100 firm for a year while in college, and during month end closings I would be in the office till 8 or 9pm. I currently work in a small public firm doing audits of NFP entities and some public clients. Needless to say, I am working my tail off and stay as long as needed to finish my work. This will only get worse between now and April, as everyone is on a calendar YE. That is the nature of the work. I know what I signed up for, but for me it is a means to an end, as I look to gain enough experience to land a controller position in a few years, hopefully with the private company I interned for (I really enjoyed my time there, and the people were fantastic). Having B4 on my resume only enhances the realization of my goal.

The bottom line is that it is definitely possible at 40+. I was forced to change careers mid-life and went back to school to pursue an accounting degree. My grades got me the interview, and I suppose my personality got me in the door. The funny thing is, while most other firms shied away from me because of my age (I was asked the backdoor age questions like how old are your kids and what year did you graduate high school), the B4 firms I applied to did not. I received offers from 2/3. That was worth more to me than anything else – hourly wage be damned. It's better than not having a job at all!

Good luck in your endeavors and if you have any other questions regarding my road to B4 please let me know.

REG - 77 (8/27/13)
FAR - 83 (12/2/13)
AUD - 87 (5/13/14)
BEC -

[vjr7653]

@OP,

I am 46 and will be starting at Big4 in Sept. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to start at a B4 and are able to go through the interview process, then by all means do so. Don't let anyone tell you about the long hours for low pay BS. That will most likely be the case for your first few years anywhere, public or private, and I have worked in both. Your experience at B4 depends entirely on the engagement team you are assigned to. In my case, when I interned I had a great group of people who specifically asked for me to be on their team when I got hired full time. Other students who interned with me had a less desirable experience, for a variety of reasons. You won't know until you try it for yourself (not based on other people's experiences or hearsay)

In my private experience, I interned at a fortune 100 firm for a year while in college, and during month end closings I would be in the office till 8 or 9pm. I currently work in a small public firm doing audits of NFP entities and some public clients. Needless to say, I am working my tail off and stay as long as needed to finish my work. This will only get worse between now and April, as everyone is on a calendar YE. That is the nature of the work. I know what I signed up for, but for me it is a means to an end, as I look to gain enough experience to land a controller position in a few years, hopefully with the private company I interned for (I really enjoyed my time there, and the people were fantastic). Having B4 on my resume only enhances the realization of my goal.

The bottom line is that it is definitely possible at 40+. I was forced to change careers mid-life and went back to school to pursue an accounting degree. My grades got me the interview, and I suppose my personality got me in the door. The funny thing is, while most other firms shied away from me because of my age (I was asked the backdoor age questions like how old are your kids and what year did you graduate high school), the B4 firms I applied to did not. I received offers from 2/3. That was worth more to me than anything else – hourly wage be damned. It's better than not having a job at all!

Good luck in your endeavors and if you have any other questions regarding my road to B4 please let me know.

REG - 77 (8/27/13)
FAR - 83 (12/2/13)
AUD - 87 (5/13/14)
BEC -

[Tncincy]

@vjr7653

This is very inspiring. I am 48, I need the 1 year audit experience to get the reporting license. I already qualify for the license through education in my state, but I don't want just a license, but a reporting license. Anyway….at my age I was a little intimidated looking for a firm. I've always wanted to work big 4, and I won't cry if I don't, but your post gives me the incentive to find a firm to get that audit experience. I will probably be 49 when I find one, but I am not going to let my age be a hindrance.

I need to pass the exam too, but am looking for a firm.

It begins with a 75
Been here too long as a cheerleader....ready to pass

[Author]

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